This information is super helpful. I now know how weak my IC is and how the relationship with the BC differs. As soon as I’m able to gain control of my IC I’m going to practice strengthening it. Should I practice erect or flaccid to try to gain the feeling?
Locating and Activating the Ischiocavernosus Muscle (IC) to obtain more 'Penis Power'
- Thread starter DickerSchwanz
- Start date
Fully erect it seems to work best with the stretching to the side. That's when the IC is able to grab the penis "leg"(CorpusCavernosum side) of that side. The harder the penis the more leverage the IC get`s.
It's also only a slight feeling but I can clearly feel the difference in the left or right IC opposite the direction I stretch.
I don`t see it getting as strong as like doing a BC/PC kegel against a pull
The IC is one of the smallest, maybe the smallest down there.
From discovering the IC, loosing the access again, trying and playing around with other stuff it took me a lot of time to get where I am. But whenever I dedicate time to the IC I do see an improvement in access, strength and and awareness of it. Nowhere near peak IC performance yet
At the beginning both without doing anything that strains the muscles or penis obviously.
It`s all about getting access and awareness of it first. There's clearly an effect where doing too much looses the access to the muscle when starting out.
Pause and try again later or next day in that case.
I don't have mastered it.
I use it to prolong sex and have maximum sized erections. I do that consciously.
But it also strengthened my PF and erection while having an erection with no technique in mind during that.
I think longer lasting erections is one of the biggest things it gave. I would often loose erection with no touching or penetration, switching positions etc.
When I consciously engage an IC hold I can maintain an erection for ~2+ minutes without any penetration or touching.(RK helps too)
Mastering IC means you need to also master the PF and mind ^^ they work in combination.
My goal is to create an erection by just engaging the IC muscle and BC muscle. Or to get as close to that as possible.
I use it to prolong sex and have maximum sized erections. I do that consciously.
But it also strengthened my PF and erection while having an erection with no technique in mind during that.
I think longer lasting erections is one of the biggest things it gave. I would often loose erection with no touching or penetration, switching positions etc.
When I consciously engage an IC hold I can maintain an erection for ~2+ minutes without any penetration or touching.(RK helps too)
Mastering IC means you need to also master the PF and mind ^^ they work in combination.
My goal is to create an erection by just engaging the IC muscle and BC muscle. Or to get as close to that as possible.
@Dickerschwanz
Hey man, I want to ask regarding targeting the IC muscle, my problem is that when targeting IC Muscle I always end up ejaculating which is the worst thing since I am on no fap and never want to ejaculate or orgasm without intercourse. It literally damages my mental and physical health.
Apart from this issue I want to ask how do I target the IC muscle. Currently I do like you mentioend in one of your posts that imagine your IC legs moving upwards towards your head while closing together. I am doing the same but I only move my penis up and down not erect and it decreases in size immediately. I want to know your isolation method and whether you target your IC muscle starting at the perinuem till the shaft or from the base of the penis till the shaft.
Hey man, I want to ask regarding targeting the IC muscle, my problem is that when targeting IC Muscle I always end up ejaculating which is the worst thing since I am on no fap and never want to ejaculate or orgasm without intercourse. It literally damages my mental and physical health.
Apart from this issue I want to ask how do I target the IC muscle. Currently I do like you mentioend in one of your posts that imagine your IC legs moving upwards towards your head while closing together. I am doing the same but I only move my penis up and down not erect and it decreases in size immediately. I want to know your isolation method and whether you target your IC muscle starting at the perinuem till the shaft or from the base of the penis till the shaft.
@DickerSchwanz
I love you for pointing that out! I suffer from exactly the same problem: not being able to maintain an erection without stimulation. No touching, it starts to go down just after a few seconds (30 sec until it's mostly flaccid again)!
And after my own researches (here, reddit, wiki, pubmed) I noticed: doing an RK while being erect makes my penis keep the erection, or at least the blood or size, much longer than doing nothing. Like even when I am only semi-erect, doing nothing makes it shrivel rather quickly and engaging in an RK at that point makes the shrivelling stop.
On the other hand, the normal kegels which I previously thought would help, did the opposite. And it made a lot more sense after I became conscious that I always flex my BC during masturbation and that relaxing it even felt totally weird to me!
I'd be super happy if you could answer a few questions:
a) Are your benefits of being able to maintain an erection longer passive or active? So, do you need to flex your IC consciously so that your penis does not go down that quickly or did strengthening the muscle improve the duration passively?
Or to rephrase it: If I start training my IC, will I be able to maintain my erection longer without flexing the IC?
b) Can you do an RK without flexing your abs?
c) Do you think the most effective way to train the IC is doing RKs while being hard or do you prefer the flaccid training?
d) When you talk about "mastering the PF", do you mean the whole pelvic muscle region?
e) How long did it roughly take for your IC training to show results in maintaining your erection longer?
Thank you so much for posting all this! I am really grateful for your continued efforts! And after my resultless "kegel journeys", "nutrition journeys" and more, I finally found something that makes sense to me and gives me hope!
Schöne Grüße!
It's easier trained erect. Being erect always means some sort of arousal is needed. Training the IC while being in a penis pump might be a work around but needs experience with pumping. I suggest you also train managing arousal levels. If you go from 1/10 to 10/10 fast then you need to feel how 3/10 9.3/10 arousal is. You can do that by slowing down movement on your penis or not touching at all.. I think doing IC's without knowing about RK`s and other PF stuff might be not the way to go. I "mastered" RK`s before doing IC`s. A very tight BC muscle might prevent you from engaging the IC too.
You can engage the IC flaccid too but in that case the inner penis is not inflated enough to give the IC leverage to grab onto the inner penis. It was easier for me to isolate the IC while being erect but now I can also easily engage it while flaccid.
I start from inside the pelvic floor. Most of the IC's is inside the PF.
Please read post 1 and page 1. I think it might clarify more. I think it addresses how to isolate.
I'm happy to answer more Q`s.
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Yes the BC flex is chronic for many and I didn`t notice either before I was able to do a full out RK where I balloned my whole PF into all directions cancelling all tensions. The first times it feels like there´s a big urge to engage the BC. Have to work against that until its gone. A chronically held BC will prevent blood moving into the penis. It`s like clamping off a pressurized hose at the water source.. hose goes limp. While the IC hold is more like closing of the hose where water comes out increasing the pressure inside.
A full out RK to me is not one where you end up in "neutral" but one where you go for maximum stretch. Such an RK is more for training and a slight one helps during intercourse and the IC engagement has more impact on holding blood inside the penis. (which also reminds me that IC training helps with the controversial issue called "venous leakage" which is not due to weak veines but weak muscles)
anyway.,.
a) yes the more you train it the better it will work without you using it consciously(like all muscles). The baseline strength will go up. But I still engage it if I feel I need or want to.
b) A slight one yes. A full out stretched not. Like all full out stretching of muscles will involve some effort of other muscles to help it.
c) the most effective way is to do IC flexes and holds etc. while erect as the erect inner penis give the IC leverage to work with. RK helps but isn`t necessary once the Pelvic floor isn`t tight and countering the IC moves.
d)yes. balanced PF. Fully aware of it. Being able to engage it to maximum flex, total relaxation, everything inbetween. Is it necessary for a normal sex life? no ^^
e) IDK. working it since many years rather ineffective. Everything changed for me when I managed to do a full RK stretching all tense parts of the PF. The IC's being one of the weaker and "subconcsious" muscles puts it in a bad spot when the PF is tense in other parts prevent full IC movement.
Key is to aim for balance.. whatever that means for your personal case and PF.
But too reach balance sometimes you have to counter the imbalance first.
Many RK and PF advices talk about doing slight stuff and going easy. But that is not enough for a rock hard tense PF. I had to do a very intense full PF RK where I almost sh*t myself(do it on empty bowels). A full RK to me feels like I`m blowing up a balloon from the center point of my PF into all directions 3D 360°. All PF muscles bulging outwards to the limits possible(without strain obviously be smart and not go from 0 to 100).
It was not enough for me to to go to relaxed. That would just mean once I forget about my PF it goes back to tense. It`s like with other muscles that are tense. Professional theraptists really work them until the "cramp"/tense is countered to the opposite. Then it`s easier to arrive at "neutral"/0-point/relaxed.
From there the IC is engaged isolated easier or else you are just using a smaller muscle to counter the tension of much stronger and bigger muscles. (try flexing your triceps while fully engaging your biceps. The Biceps will always make it hard or impossible for the triceps to get its full range of contraction. Now imagine having a slightly chronically tense biceps all the time. That`s what most people with problematic PF`s have (biceps triceps NOT the same obviously but similar in principle)
But too reach balance sometimes you have to counter the imbalance first.
Many RK and PF advices talk about doing slight stuff and going easy. But that is not enough for a rock hard tense PF. I had to do a very intense full PF RK where I almost sh*t myself(do it on empty bowels). A full RK to me feels like I`m blowing up a balloon from the center point of my PF into all directions 3D 360°. All PF muscles bulging outwards to the limits possible(without strain obviously be smart and not go from 0 to 100).
It was not enough for me to to go to relaxed. That would just mean once I forget about my PF it goes back to tense. It`s like with other muscles that are tense. Professional theraptists really work them until the "cramp"/tense is countered to the opposite. Then it`s easier to arrive at "neutral"/0-point/relaxed.
From there the IC is engaged isolated easier or else you are just using a smaller muscle to counter the tension of much stronger and bigger muscles. (try flexing your triceps while fully engaging your biceps. The Biceps will always make it hard or impossible for the triceps to get its full range of contraction. Now imagine having a slightly chronically tense biceps all the time. That`s what most people with problematic PF`s have (biceps triceps NOT the same obviously but similar in principle)
@dickerschwanz
hey man thanks for replying.
I think I can target my IC because I kegel and target the muscle behind the testicles and bring them together like normal kegel. My penis jumps up and town rapidly even erected but not that hard. One thing that's really unusual is that when I target those muscle my penis rotates anti-clockwise. Like helicopters wings. It rotates in circles anti-clockwise and I can do it for as long as I want, it's like when your flaccid penis elongates to its full size and then you grab it and do copter shakes like rotate your penis with speed clockwise or anti-clockwise except I don't use my hands it's only my muscles doing it.
hey man thanks for replying.
I think I can target my IC because I kegel and target the muscle behind the testicles and bring them together like normal kegel. My penis jumps up and town rapidly even erected but not that hard. One thing that's really unusual is that when I target those muscle my penis rotates anti-clockwise. Like helicopters wings. It rotates in circles anti-clockwise and I can do it for as long as I want, it's like when your flaccid penis elongates to its full size and then you grab it and do copter shakes like rotate your penis with speed clockwise or anti-clockwise except I don't use my hands it's only my muscles doing it.
@DickerSchwanz
Thank you! I really appreciate your detailed answers!
Regarding that, I have a few follow-up questions.
a) If you try to consciously hold your erection (said ~2 min), do you do an isolated IC flex or are you doing an RK?
b) Follow-up: When you do an isolated IC flex, is like an RK without trying to involve the other muscles or is it more like the motion of doing a minimal normal kegel?
Or to rephrase: When you isolate the IC, is it more a push-motion or a pull-motion?
c) Although you made your point of the necessity of strong full RKs clear:
Do you think that trying to loosen the PF by doing a very slight RK throughout the day will help in making it less tense?
E.g. when walking or working at the computer, trying to hold a minimal RK all the time.
d) Do you think that training the IC by only using very hard RKs would be enough to improve my "maintaining qualities" or must I learn to isolate the IC by itself?
Thank you! I really appreciate your detailed answers!
Regarding that, I have a few follow-up questions.
a) If you try to consciously hold your erection (said ~2 min), do you do an isolated IC flex or are you doing an RK?
b) Follow-up: When you do an isolated IC flex, is like an RK without trying to involve the other muscles or is it more like the motion of doing a minimal normal kegel?
Or to rephrase: When you isolate the IC, is it more a push-motion or a pull-motion?
c) Although you made your point of the necessity of strong full RKs clear:
Do you think that trying to loosen the PF by doing a very slight RK throughout the day will help in making it less tense?
E.g. when walking or working at the computer, trying to hold a minimal RK all the time.
d) Do you think that training the IC by only using very hard RKs would be enough to improve my "maintaining qualities" or must I learn to isolate the IC by itself?
15 years ago (at the age of 18), I woke up one morning with ZERO mind to penis connection. I had HF and the first time I noticed, was my morning pee where I realized my penis was literally dead. I couldn't move or do anything with it. I also immediately had ED, low libido and other symptoms which seem to resemble Post Finasteride Syndrome. Since then, I've tried every possible treatment possible with little to no benefit. I am actually planning on getting an implant in the next few months.
However, my PT for the pelvic floor/CPPS/HF never really differentiated the BC from the IC. I can control the BC through a kegel very easily. Its very strong and often tense. Over the years I've worked a lot on trying to RK to relax it.
A few days ago I began to try to exercise the IC to see if this helps my genital/sexual symptoms. It seems like I am "maybe" able to barely do this during/immediately after peeing. However, when I am just flaccid - I seem to have no connection to the IC. I've read that with an erection is the best way to practice, but I can only really get an erection with Viagra.
My biggest concern is that even when I "think" I am exercising the IC, I am worried that maybe I am actually using the BC. I can easily make my penis jump, but it feels like I am using the BC a lot! I guess I am maybe confused on how to use the IC but not the BC. Someone had said the IC kegel is only the very beginning on the regular kegel. Is that true? Any further tips to help my brain connect to the IC without activating the BC. I really want to exaust this route as the cause of my ED within the next few months when I have an implant scheduled.
I even remember prior to getting HF/PFS, that as a kid I always dribbled in my underwear after urinating and often stop/started while peeing. Clearly even as a kid I had some pelvic floor dysfunction.
However, my PT for the pelvic floor/CPPS/HF never really differentiated the BC from the IC. I can control the BC through a kegel very easily. Its very strong and often tense. Over the years I've worked a lot on trying to RK to relax it.
A few days ago I began to try to exercise the IC to see if this helps my genital/sexual symptoms. It seems like I am "maybe" able to barely do this during/immediately after peeing. However, when I am just flaccid - I seem to have no connection to the IC. I've read that with an erection is the best way to practice, but I can only really get an erection with Viagra.
My biggest concern is that even when I "think" I am exercising the IC, I am worried that maybe I am actually using the BC. I can easily make my penis jump, but it feels like I am using the BC a lot! I guess I am maybe confused on how to use the IC but not the BC. Someone had said the IC kegel is only the very beginning on the regular kegel. Is that true? Any further tips to help my brain connect to the IC without activating the BC. I really want to exaust this route as the cause of my ED within the next few months when I have an implant scheduled.
I even remember prior to getting HF/PFS, that as a kid I always dribbled in my underwear after urinating and often stop/started while peeing. Clearly even as a kid I had some pelvic floor dysfunction.
a) mostly an IC but the RK is often used along with it or without it. I guess when I need more pressure into the penis I also do a hard RK.
b) More like an RK, it creates "top down outside pressure" while kegels clench upwards and inwards.
c) nah I never liked doing any kegels while not being focused on it. It`s like bodybuilding in that sense. an RK is the better choice for passive PF stuff.
What I like to do is walking with an IC hold which is an interesting sensation.
d) Theres no training with RK's for the IC, an RK just stretches PF muscles and opens blood flow and pressure(hard RK to the penis)
idk try it.
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Well that`s complex. You dont feel anything touching it or you just can't achieve an erection? No feeling at all then something traumatic in some form happened and possibly the nerves are damaged.. Injury or something other that happened prior to "one morning" ?
If you can get an erection and hold it with viagra then the metus works and an implant seems overkill. You or a therapist should be able to gauge if your PF is tight.
If it is you do RK`s. Anything else wont help much. The very tight areas in my PF I neither had much access or awareness off. Another way to try to make your brain aware is to train inner body awareness. Many tight people have problems in other body parts too. Like being aware your hand is there without touching or looking at it or imagining it. Easier and different than the PF but same "mind set".
Then PF control can be a tool. Like training the IC. The IC could also counter the so called "venous leakage" which is basically the lack of mechanism to close off the veins leaving the penis (veins always "leak"/move blood out of organs).
It's a touchy subject but if not due to a mechanic incident like force there can also be trauma in a mental way which we can hold onto forever(until let go or solved). If I'm in a tense situation I still often clench the PF and only notice it after and have to let the tension go. In an "esoteric way" the PF is related to having a strong base in reality towards earth and towards bringing your weight and person onto the planet and expressing yourself like dancing or planting a tree working and walking mother earth. Some people this helps
I prefer the forum to help others reading but you can also write PM for personal stuff
Please anybody tell me how to train IC muscle with clearly step by step for dumb brained like me and when you try to slight kegel to located the IC muscle did you mean you contracted the anus too?
I propose the smartest man on earth will have a harder time locating the IC then some fuckboi doofus
There's no direct contraction of the anus. The slight kegel route I don`t like. Hard to differentiate that way.
The biggest thing for me was to know where the IC muscles are. Do you? That is the first thing. I posted some pics on P1.
Look at the pictures and imagine where it is in your body. Without it you are fishing in the dark.
I noticed that doing an IC is easiest when doing a full belly breath in. Meaning your belly bulges down and out when you breath in.
A normal Kegel or BC Kegel seems to interfer with such a belly breath while the IC is aided by it.
A normal Kegel or BC Kegel seems to interfer with such a belly breath while the IC is aided by it.
