I was just sharing information that is readily available. I assume to are an adult and does not have to be spoon fed. Consult medical journals and epidemiological studies. Consult publications by CDC and public health departments. It isn't my job to convince people the world isn't flat. The information is out there no one handed it to me I looked and did my own research. I encourage you to do the same as I doubt you would accept without contradiction anything I wrote.
Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)
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[FONT="]Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's leading infectious diseases expert, said that herd immunity in the U.S. could be reached if up to 90 percent of Americans receive a COVID-19 vaccine.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Speaking to The New York Times on Thursday, Fauci, who is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said, "We really don't know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But I'm not going to say 90 percent."[/FONT]
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New Zealand did the best of any western country. Re cost/benifit of lockdown that is for the people of New Zealand to decide . They just reelected the party/pm that did it with an increased majority .
Aussie is similar . Compare that to US there is no doubt the deaths are vastly less the economic cost hmm we shall see.
Economic cost as I said earlier it will be determined over time and a comparison with US will be interesting
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Vaccination isn't the sole means of achieving herd immunity. Additionally, he still hasn't presented anything to support the assertion that "the pandemic will continue". It's not even a pandemic any longer. It's an epidemic that will follow the course of all epidemics before it. If someone has some data to show that a pandemic will continue unless 75% of the population is vaccinated, I want to see it. If it's so readily available, just provide the source for me, please. Look at my past posts and you'll see that I provide source info frequently - I don't say to go find it for yourself - and don't think I'm spoon feeding anyone when I do. I'm trying to be helpful and share information. Plus, I don't just say things because they sound good or feel good - I say things with information to back it and am happy to share the source, even when not challenged to do so.
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I get what you're saying - I do. I'm pointing out that there are others who faired much better and without the lockdowns (and consequences of them), etc... And the studies and data are now showing that the lockdowns weren't the cause of anyone doing any better.
Yes, people can decide how they feel about the cost/benefit. But there are ways to measure the effects and assign costs to them and it's becoming apparent that the costs were too high and didn't outweigh the benefits. By those measures, of course. We have to learn from this and we have to make informed decisions going forward. If the destruction of people's lives and businesses, unintended deaths, etc... as a result of lockdowns is as high as it appears to be in these studies, we have to be willing to say that it's less costly if X number of people die in a pandemic.
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Not in the western world . The closest may be Aussie .
Orange with oranges after all.
Success is the best argument .
It is not for you to tell New Zealand how to assign cost/benifit .
There is no doubt they had great success in avoiding death the economic cost and how it recovers relative to US remains to be seen.
Jacinta Ardern the NZ prime minster has the population solidly behind after her leadership through covid . Some have called her the worlds most effective leader.
If it’s no longer a pandemic, how come the CDC is reporting the highest daily cases, ICU admissions, and deaths since the beginning, nine months ago? Also, please provide the source of your claim that it is now an epidemic. My sources of information come from the CDC and Dr. Fauci, who is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
According to Dr Fauci and Jerome Adams, the US Surgeon General, masks significantly reduce the transmission of the Corona Virus from the early infected and asymptomatic carriers and will continue to be helpful until herd immunity is achieved.
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Seasonality. Right now the data shows that we're seeing deaths and hospitalizations similar to the same time in prior years. Check out the data analysis being done by Joel Smalley. Here's a graph showing the earlier spike and then the seasonal effects compared with past years: https://twitter.com/RealJoelSmalley/status/1341660665010941953/photo/1 So SARS-CoV-2 has run its course. Remember back in 2010 when the WHO declared the N1H1 pandemic to be over? We weren't all vaccinated and herd immunity wasn't reached but they said that the virus had "largely run its course" and we were post-pandemic. That's where we are with this one. Sadly the authorities just can't let it go. They talk about deaths being at their highest since earlier this year but they don't talk about them being similar to prior years.
They can say all they want but their statements are contradicted by the data. RationalGround did a study of 50 states and could find no correlation between masks compliance and case counts https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1340725086278434821 In fact, there are a number of instances where mask compliance was reported in the 80% to 90% range yet also had the highest rates of transmission. You can see more of their work here: https://rationalground.com/ including a study published in JAMA showing no risk of pre or asymptomatic spread. There's plenty of information to show no significant risk of asymptomatic spread. The study in Nature Communications is the largest but has been ignored by media and authorities https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w Fauci, himself, said that asymptomatic spread isn't a concern. Though he'll say whatever he needs to say to get someone to give him a microphone. The number of times he's been wrong and/or contradicted himself should have completely discredited him by now.
Facui is a bureaucrat.
They can present whatever numbers and data they want. At the end of the day, not everything we read on the internet/see on TV is true. Studies are and have been manipulated and twisted all the time to try to influence people. Simply because they know that most people are lazy and don't even read the abstract, let alone the entire study. People just want look at headlines (enter fake news). They did this a lot with bodybuilding supplements, trying to push BCAAs and people (literally) drank it up.
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Not2big thank you for your wise and insightful posts. I really appreciate your caring and thoughtfulness. Everything that you have posted tracks with the public health department I work at. Pegasus. New Zealand is being heralded here as an example of how to do things right. Thank you for sharing your information from across the world. I would have hoped we would have done better here but unfortunately we have an orange smear on our democracy that does not believe in science and set about dividing the country instead of unifying it in the way New Zealand 's leader did. Yes there will be an economic impact there as well but countless lives were been saved. Kudos to the Kiwis mate.
Hey Johnny! Can you provide a source other than Tweets. I don’t tweet, but would be interested in reading the source information
New Zealand; now give me a sparsely populated nation surrounded by water with very few large metro areas and I could bring down the covid numbers real quick. Comparing that to the US is comparing and insect an elephant.
You are right I guess. If we didn't have a science denying narcisstic wanna be Autocracy for a leader it might be a better comparison. New Zealand's leader obviously cares very much for her country and its people. And our leader cares very much for himself. Oh and Ivanka. Very very much for Ivanka. Unfortunately the comparisons of size and complexity of the countries difference can't even start when one has been rotting from the head down. January 6th one last failed try at an Authoritarian takeover and then January 20 when the country, science and democracy have chance to try to make a comeback. Then we can talk apples to apples on how different countries are handling the pandemic. I will not take anything away from New Zealand and their tremendous accomplishment in keeping the citizens safe.
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If our statistics omitted false positives and all positives triggered by things other than covid-19 we'd be looking pretty good here in the US of A.
We have people being tested that are symptom free. I dont remember another time where people were just up and getting tested for sickness without symptoms.
Americans have largely lost the ability of critical thinking. (Not directed at you)
We as a nation are prime to be subject to government control, the likes of which we have never been before.
This is not what our forefathers fought for, this is not what our veterans died for. If they are looking down on us now, they are disgusted.
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So the orange guy closed travel from China; Fauci and all the other side said it was wrong. Was it? Fauci said in March if you wanted to take a cruise go take one. Good idea? Fauci said in January Americans need not be concerned about this virus;was he right? The orange guy got a vaccine done in record time that all the other side said they weren't going to take because it was rushed but now they're lining up for it. Trump did nothing wrong other that try to keep the mood of the people going through tough times up. Tell me what exactly was the other sides plan? Other than wear mask I didn't here one word except for Pelosi telling people to go to SF and celebrate Chines New Year.
Actually veterans with health issues who fought for us are actually hope that we will fight for them now and keep them safe and healthy. Unfortunately these are the suckers and losers that our leader wondered "why would you do that" referencing fighting for your country. Almost half the country might support his idea of having the military rerun the election. Correct half the country is primed for an Autocrat stronger man leader like Putin, Kim or Trump. Yes my dad who fought for democracy and American lives in WW2 would be disgusted. On the bright side if Ivanka successfully unseats Rubio in Florida gets experience in the senate she could run for pres someday and we will have our very own American Evita
Scientist across the world started working on the vaccine the moment China released the genome. When he was saying this will all just go away by April and was down playing the severity. They already were close to the formula before Operation Warped Mind was started. tRump taking credit for the vaccine is a knee slapper. Like anyone I enjoy a good laugh. It wasn't the hard work of scientists across the world it was Mr. Inject bleach and lets listen to the doctor on the white house steps that says stds from having sex with demon. Yes we owe the vaccine to tRump.
Could you please be accurate. Please show me where Trump said to inject bleach or lysol. I saw the press briefing and he simply asked the doctors there if such a thing was possible. I knew the minute he said it some bubblehead would say that he said to inject bleach. Now if you want to have a serious discussion why start of with something that you know is not true?
Downplaying the severity of a serious issue; Now didn't Winston Churchill do that for the British people as the Nazi's were bombing the hell out of London? Maybe he should have just come out and say a whole lot of you folks are gonna die. Good for morale huh? FDR did the same with his fireside chats to keep morale up but Trump bad. Speaking of downplaying with the virus very present in January why was Pelosi inviting people to come to SF for new Year in February? Why was the governor of NY and the mayor of NYC telling us New Yorkers should go out to a dinner and show as the virus raged. Hell Trump shut down the country 2 weeks later. Don't tell me about downplaying.
Now did researchers start doing work when China finally released the genome? Sure as poop they did and who was gonna pay? When Trump committed to buy millions of doses well the drug companies saw the pot of gold and went for it. Trump cut the red bullshit tape to speed things along. Having worked on government research projects a few years ago I'll tell you how it goes. You get a portion of your grant money, do your first phase and send in your results to the FDA for scrutiny and peer review. It takes the FDA about 6 months to approve or disapprove of your first phase. If approve they allot you the next portion of your grant money so you can begin to work and that and then do it all over again. That's why vaccines and new drugs stay in the pipeline for years before coming to market. Can you tell me who cut all that red tape?
Can you tell me what the other sides, your sides, plan was? I haven't heard of any plan other than close business and wear a mask. Remember SARS back in 2009-10? Do you remember their plan to combat the virus? If you don't want to look it up I have many times as well as lived through those years. Their plan was wash hands, stay home if you feel sick and cough into your sleeve. Now they got lucky, as Biden chief of staff said, that the SARS H1N1 virus was not as virulent as covid. You know after they got to 60 million cases of H1N1 they actually stopped testing? Yes they did.
Yes you hate the orange guy; got it. But come to a discussion with facts. Don't be the guy who brings a knife to a gunfight.
Hey do you actually know about when covid got here? If not I'll tell you.
Downplaying the severity of a serious issue; Now didn't Winston Churchill do that for the British people as the Nazi's were bombing the hell out of London? Maybe he should have just come out and say a whole lot of you folks are gonna die. Good for morale huh? FDR did the same with his fireside chats to keep morale up but Trump bad. Speaking of downplaying with the virus very present in January why was Pelosi inviting people to come to SF for new Year in February? Why was the governor of NY and the mayor of NYC telling us New Yorkers should go out to a dinner and show as the virus raged. Hell Trump shut down the country 2 weeks later. Don't tell me about downplaying.
Now did researchers start doing work when China finally released the genome? Sure as poop they did and who was gonna pay? When Trump committed to buy millions of doses well the drug companies saw the pot of gold and went for it. Trump cut the red bullshit tape to speed things along. Having worked on government research projects a few years ago I'll tell you how it goes. You get a portion of your grant money, do your first phase and send in your results to the FDA for scrutiny and peer review. It takes the FDA about 6 months to approve or disapprove of your first phase. If approve they allot you the next portion of your grant money so you can begin to work and that and then do it all over again. That's why vaccines and new drugs stay in the pipeline for years before coming to market. Can you tell me who cut all that red tape?
Can you tell me what the other sides, your sides, plan was? I haven't heard of any plan other than close business and wear a mask. Remember SARS back in 2009-10? Do you remember their plan to combat the virus? If you don't want to look it up I have many times as well as lived through those years. Their plan was wash hands, stay home if you feel sick and cough into your sleeve. Now they got lucky, as Biden chief of staff said, that the SARS H1N1 virus was not as virulent as covid. You know after they got to 60 million cases of H1N1 they actually stopped testing? Yes they did.
Yes you hate the orange guy; got it. But come to a discussion with facts. Don't be the guy who brings a knife to a gunfight.
Hey do you actually know about when covid got here? If not I'll tell you.
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