My "echo chamber" is the public health and medical community. HELLO hello hello. I like the echo if the scientist and medical community. Deplorables not so much. Oh he did not go there. As always good talk...
Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)
- Thread starter HansTwilight
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My "echo chamber" is the public health and medical community. HELLO hello hello. I like the echo if the scientist and medical community. Deplorables not so much. Oh he did not go there. As always good talk...
Okay let's go one at a time. Simply tell me what policy Trump enacted to promote herd immunity. I know he talked about it as many others have but what policy did he set for this country to push it toward herd immunity? Did the lockdown push herd immunity? How bout vaccine development. Please tell me the policy.
Now let's look at Sweden. The Swedish government never issue a statement saying their policy was a failure. That was their do nothing king who said that. The failure of Swedens policy was lack of clarity. That was the governments fault. Sweden never issued mandatory rules but rather guidelines. Those guidelines changed everytime the wind changed as well as changed from region to region so no one had an idea of just what to so. Now that does sound familiar; wear masks, don't wear masks; stay indoors no go outside; close schools no open them. People need clarity.
Now for data; yes we have a big problem with that. Collection of data is at times faulty but hey it's data we have to believe it right? Next the interpretation of data is up to the interpreter who may have a slant here or there.
Case in point. In the early 70's there was a doctors strike at the city hospitals in LA. The death rate in those hospitals went down more than 90%. A big study was done after the strike was over to find out what was going on in those hospitals. Well after much money was spent some bright guy looking at "the data" found out that during the time the death rate went down in the public hospitals it rose in the private ones. It seems all the gun shot wounds and heart attacks went to the private hospitals because there were no doctors at the public ones. Yes data should always drive policy and not common sense.
Case in point. In the early 70's there was a doctors strike at the city hospitals in LA. The death rate in those hospitals went down more than 90%. A big study was done after the strike was over to find out what was going on in those hospitals. Well after much money was spent some bright guy looking at "the data" found out that during the time the death rate went down in the public hospitals it rose in the private ones. It seems all the gun shot wounds and heart attacks went to the private hospitals because there were no doctors at the public ones. Yes data should always drive policy and not common sense.
Even though Scott Atlas a major proponent if herd immunity isn't part if the team at this point. Trump bought into that theory early on listening to Paul Alexander and Michael Caputo. There is not one single policy I can point to but a myriad of steps meant to slow things down such as testing so people have a false sense of safety and engage with others. Castrating the CDC stifling scientist like Fauci who has 40 years of expience in the field. Trump wanted to down play the virus he said so and he did and still does in the misguided idea that if everyone gets exposed we will reach herd immunity. His Hitlarian disregard for the human lives lost is outrageous at best criminal at worst. As I said before history will not be kind to him or in reporting that ignorance in this country made a bad situation go from dire to breathtakingly horrible. Now it is only horrible if you care for people more than ones own opinions. Wearing a mask hurts no one whether it will be shown (as it has already) to be affective or not. In Trumps attempt to create a sense of safety so everyone could get sick and the we bury the dead and move on he made fun of mask wearing countless times. He didn't like it because he didn't want alarm bells ringing. He wanted herd immunity and weighed the economic cost against you grandmothers life and decide lets be calm let the virus run its course and sorry cancer patient sorry veteran sorry spouse. There was not a single policy but there has been a guiding philosophy of herd immunity and to that end endless bro science hurdles have been thrown in front of science and medicine.
Data and statistics are not the same. Data is a piece of information statistics uses that information to create a narrative or make a point valid or false. Correlation is not causation. At a beach there were three shark attacks every victim had eaten ice cream that day therefore eating ice cream causes shark attacks. When I say data I dint mean what is done with it to show clear or muddy pictures I mean raw data that speaks for itself and is the currency of mathematics economics science and medicine.
Now let me get t the quote that actually scares me; A great society doesn't give choices like the economy or your life.
Choices are exactly what a great society does give you. Communist and dictator societies don't give choices and there has never been any great society with those other forms of government. As freedom loving people that has made a great society based on choices how sad it is that some think we can give away or right to choices for any reason. Oh but it's for the common good or to save lives. Dictators have been saying that for centuries. You know what happens when we as a society give up choices? We never get them back; that's what history teaches us.
Oh but then it's the job of government to help those people. Can you explain what the government can do to help a dead business? For many small business rigor mortis has set in a long time ago; you cannot ressurrect them. Oh they can give these people unemployment and a stimulus check like that's gonna do anything.
Please tell me how the government of a great society takes care of the people who committed suicides over the loss of their livelihood? What does the government of a great society do to help the surge in alcoholism and depression brought on by the shutdown and their loss of their life's work? Do you get the concept that people that spent their whole life making a business through no fault of their own had it destroyed never to return? No it cannot be fixed. We we are left with is more people earning a living from government handouts. There is no great society that can do that.
Choices are exactly what a great society does give you. Communist and dictator societies don't give choices and there has never been any great society with those other forms of government. As freedom loving people that has made a great society based on choices how sad it is that some think we can give away or right to choices for any reason. Oh but it's for the common good or to save lives. Dictators have been saying that for centuries. You know what happens when we as a society give up choices? We never get them back; that's what history teaches us.
Oh but then it's the job of government to help those people. Can you explain what the government can do to help a dead business? For many small business rigor mortis has set in a long time ago; you cannot ressurrect them. Oh they can give these people unemployment and a stimulus check like that's gonna do anything.
Please tell me how the government of a great society takes care of the people who committed suicides over the loss of their livelihood? What does the government of a great society do to help the surge in alcoholism and depression brought on by the shutdown and their loss of their life's work? Do you get the concept that people that spent their whole life making a business through no fault of their own had it destroyed never to return? No it cannot be fixed. We we are left with is more people earning a living from government handouts. There is no great society that can do that.
News flash I do not owe you my sources as if this is a real debate as opposed to a distraction. This isn't a debate. Pandemic. Settled. Need to get vaccine. Settled. Masks and social distancing works. Settled. Herd immunity through vaccination needed to return to a more normal life. Settled. These things are settled by people that far greater expertise than anyone here. Now what is not settled is whether clamping or squeezes are more effective. This is a site for dicks right. I didn't some how stumble onto the CDC site and engage in a debate with an epidemiologist. This whole discussion has been one step removed from I am rubber and you are glue what ever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. People are actually dying and more people will before this is done. And you are "I know I am but what are you" there are real facts there are correct behavior to engage I will not diminish that or say "this will all be gone by April like a miracle."
Now let's talk about your mask idea; we first protect lives by wearing masks. You do know that's bull but you have been lead to believe otherwise.
Doctors in OR's and even in some general practices have been wearing masks for a long time. If you know anything about medicine you would know they wore masks to prevent them from getting what you got. No doc every put a mask on to protect his patients; he is protecting himself from THEM. If you know anything about medicine the training is that every person who walks in your office can have the worst disease ever and he doesn't want it.
So your mask is protecting no one but you. Funny but why didn't we mandate masks during the cold and flu season? In a bad year we lose 80,000 people here to the flu but we never had to wear masks. Why?
Doctors in OR's and even in some general practices have been wearing masks for a long time. If you know anything about medicine you would know they wore masks to prevent them from getting what you got. No doc every put a mask on to protect his patients; he is protecting himself from THEM. If you know anything about medicine the training is that every person who walks in your office can have the worst disease ever and he doesn't want it.
So your mask is protecting no one but you. Funny but why didn't we mandate masks during the cold and flu season? In a bad year we lose 80,000 people here to the flu but we never had to wear masks. Why?
So you think a great society give it people the choice save the economy or save lives. Wow what a wtf idea. A great society doesn't even pose the question it is a no brainier (apparently not to all) Lives first so then the ecomony can be saved. Most of our dysfunctional population would take that choice and say open business let people die. Oh and if we are give out choices can we take the vote away from women. Can we engage in hate speech and be proud of it again like the big orange guy. Can we have those choices. Can I run red lights because I dint like laws that restrict me. Oh and I want the choice to smoke on planes because second hand smoke is fake news. Oh and I do not want to wear my seatbelts when driving because I like the studies that say it is better to be thrown from the car. A great society is in service to the well being lives and jobs of its people. Even the ones that think science is garbage and yearn for the days where we could be bigots out of sheer ignorance and chaos.
You had me at masks are bull. The reason we probamandao not mandate unlike Asian countries who have always know to wear masks as prevent is the same reason it has only been half added here in its adoption. Oh its political oh it bull. Wow dude seriously disappointed. I thought you could bring it but "you know its bull" while totally adorable is alas in the end only worthy of Yawn.
Oh Fizzy what to do with you. He castrated the CDC? Really? How? The professionals at the CDC do their job and they can give a rats ass what Trump you or me say. They do their work. If they don't they are not professionals and should be fired!!!!
Slowing down testing? The tests were given to the states and if anyone slowed anything down it was the state and no one else.
I went for a covid test Dec 15 at a site near my house. I was told it would be at least 45 minutes so I filled out the form, gave it to the person in the hazmat suit and waited in my car until called. 20 minutes later my wife's car wouldn't start so I left the line to go help her and never wen back. I got my test results on Dec 24, you know the test I didn't take. Funny I was positive!
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Yup and the socialist libtards tore up cities and MONUMENTS IN DC without distancing. They used the masks as an excuse to protect their identity.
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Maybe in grow you Dick bigger circle it is thought that the CDC functioned as normal but Trump was calling the shots by stopping changing and ginning the information. Career staff that have left said it was an absolute abuse of what was a non political body to be forced it issue information that synced up with the federal misinformation campaign. That he f___ed with the CDC is old established news. I am really sorry that i had to break it to you. If I had known you would find it so upsetting I would have used a rainbow font. I will try to break the hard truth more gently in the future. I look forward to the CDC functioning as it should under President Biden.
Fizzy I hate to break the news to but my nephew, the one that went to John Hopkins, has been working at NIAID for about the better part of 15 years and none of what you said is true. People left because they had better opportunities not because of Trump. Oh the press likes a good story but it simply is not true.
Not trying to change your mind. I know you have your sources that bring you to what you believe as true. You of course are wrong according to my sources so that gets us know where except for standing before the judge of time where some objective truth will out. I don't know if you played rugby in school but you are good in a scrum. I am going to tip my hat to you right now. Then back to the scrum.
If your sources are real people that you know and talk to fine. If your source is someone said something on tv then you have no source; you have only hearsay. In the professional world, especially in medicine, doctors/researchers don't care what anyone says. They simply do their job.
