Vote for the next President of The United States

[BigRooster]

It amazes me how only white people can be racist.

I know fftopic:to some degree.

 

[Zman007]

I don't fall for the mantra. Trump says racist things. Trump says sexist things. All the racists I know support Trump. The arithmetic is quite simple. I've seen systemic racism, I've seen people justify their possibly subconscious racism.

I'm the last person to jump out and call people racist and only do so when necessary, but I do recognize when someone is and when racism is taking place. I know many racists, unfortunately, and none of them will claim to be racist. I know many who like to say things like "I'm not racist, but..." then proceed to say racist things.

Not liking Obama does not make you a racist, I know many people, myself included, that are not a fan or dislike him or his policies that are not racist. On the other hand, I know people who dislike him because he is black, they believe he is a secret muslim that wasn't born in the united states and he is coming for their guns, also the economy is worse now than the debacle Bush left. These people claim not to be racist yet use racial slurrs like referring to him as a monkey etc. I ask the same question, what has he done that is so terrible? How has he destroyed this country? I point out how almost all objective measure of economy have improved and he has surpassed the promises of Romney's run. Hell, didn't Fox just run something that finally acknowledged the economic recover and tried to credit Bush? Speaking of Fox News, go and read the comments that were left on their article about Obama's daughter and read the things that were said.

Your housing story is nice, but is not the kind of blatant racism that took place with Trump. I'm sorry your friend lost that suit, from your side of it it doesn't sound like he should have. The equivalent example would be if he required half month's rent for whites and two months rent for blacks, that would be equivalent to what Trump was doing.

 

[CUSP82]

Z who set you up as the judge of who is racist or not? You know many racist that claim to not be racist but yet you judge them as racist. I don't think that you were given some special power to judge who is and isn't a racist and I would be very careful in labeling people based on your own views. Other people may feel differently. As the saying goes; judge not lest you be judged.

 

[Dangler]

Life goes on, as the Beatles sang

Ob-la-di ob-la-da life goes on bra
La-la how the life goes on

 

[CUSP82]

I would be happier if his conversation went along the lines of; I don't like his economic policy, I don't like his immigration policy and so on. The slander, and it is slander, is wrong.Those that can see subconscious racism well God bless you; I sure as hell can't.
So as the topic goes who do you want for president and why?

 

[Zman007]

Z who set you up as the judge of who is racist or not? You know many racist that claim to not be racist but yet you judge them as racist. I don't think that you were given some special power to judge who is and isn't a racist and I would be very careful in labeling people based on your own views. Other people may feel differently. As the saying goes; judge not lest you be judged.

When someone acts or voices opinions that meet the criteria in the definition of racism. I don't throw the label around lightly, not at all. But, when someone says racist things and acts in a racist manner they are a racist.

When I am discussing the general election chances of the two parties and mention how the demographics have changed and they interrupt and say something like "we all know what demographics means, lazy thugs that don't want to work for a living", that is racism.

When I am discussing the socioeconomic stresses that perpetuate and cause poverty and someone says "well they bring it on themselves, having so many kids and not knowing who the dad is, now they are even getting white girls pregnant", that is racist.

When we are discussing BLM and I bring up the peaceful portions of their movement and the reality of systemic racism and they say that "they are all thugs and deserve to be shot.", that is racist.

When someone tells me that african americans live in poverty because they are too lazy to work for a living, that is racism.

When we are talking about poverty segregating education quality and someone says "well, do you expect them to be successful, just look at Africa, not a single successful black country in history.", that is racist.

When we are discussing the moral fabric of the US and they say we can't blame blacks for how they are, they've never had good moral fiber or family values, that is racist.

Those were all different people and most of those were within the last couple of weeks. A couple of them are law enforcement officers and despite their insistence their views do not affect them on the job, the way they tell stories and talk about suspects makes me doubt it. Ironically, every single one of them is a Republican. Definite correlation... makes one wonder what the connection is. Are racists drawn to become Republicans, or do Republicans become indoctrinated as racists. I'm not saying every Republican is racist, I know some that are not, but the a majority of the Republicans that I know demonstrate varying degrees of racism from minor and unintended to blatantly racist. I believe it has a lot to do when the Democrats kicked the racists out of their party and Nixon's southern strategy welcomed them in and won him an election.

 

[Marlon LGHanger]

If Trump is a racist because he want's to secure our southern border and prevent the Mexican drug cartels from exploiting the Mexican people then I would say he's guilty and deserves the label. < Inflammatory >

The subject of racism has been discussed adnauseam on number of political / religious threads. We all know it when we see it. It cuts both ways with all ethnicity's. But when it comes to preventing people who want to illegally enter our country, and ignore our immigration laws then we have a serious problem. I really don't care what country you are coming from (Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, Vietnam, Russia, the Ukraine or from Mars). If you sneak across our borders illegally or over stay your visa and then refuse to leave, you are breaking our laws. Taking that position doesn't make you a racist! < Inflammatory >

If someone breaks into your home, raids your refrigerator, takes a shower and sleeps in your bed, then refuses to leave when you call the cops to report your home has been broken into, does that make you a racist?

 

[Zman007]

I would be happier if his conversation went along the lines of; I don't like his economic policy, I don't like his immigration policy and so on. The slander, and it is slander, is wrong.Those that can see subconscious racism well God bless you; I sure as hell can't.
So as the topic goes who do you want for president and why?

I'd prefer actual substantive debates on policy and welcome it.

Lets start with Health Care Proposals and Tax policy. Go.

 

[CUSP82]

Okay tell me what you don't like about his healthcare policy.

 

[Rasputine]

You aven't proved donald trump is a racist!
You are just being a talking head for other peoples opinions

 

[jockinthebox]

her obituary, published in Tuesday’s Richmond Times Dispatch, reads

Well, talk about passionate voters:bad:, read the above^^^! While I don't intend to go to this extreme (God willing), I share her conviction!

(Forgive my "off topic" post...it's just how "unpersuaded" I am by either of this year's candidates).

 

[CUSP82]

Okay while we wait for Z let me tell you what I like about Trumps heathcare plan.

Now I was told when Obama care was coming my rates for go down. My and my employees health insurance went from 3000/ month to now 11,000 and it will be going up again this year. Plus nobody could keep their doctor.

Now as a business person I can write that expense off my taxes, although it still is a lot of money to pay. Only a business can fully deduct their premiums fully of their tax returns. Individuals cannot. One proposal in Trumps plan is to allow everyone that pays health insurance to fully deduct their premiums off their taxes. That will save folks a lot of money which they can put to sky high deductibles which the ACA gave us,

I do like the idea that insurance companies can bid across state line. Right now we have I think 4 insurance companies in my state allowed to sell health insurance and I do believe one is leaving at the end of the year. You don't think I may get a better price if there were 30 to choose from?

Requiring price transparency, where you can look up a doctor fee or cost of meds at different places before actually going there might save me some money and it will drive costs down.
Now a health savings account is a great idea. Since we are spending money anyway on premiums what is so bad about putting some money completely tax deductible in a health savings account for when I need it.

So tell me what you don't like about this.

 

[Cavalier]

It amazes me how only white people can be racist.

I know fftopic:to some degree.

There is a lot of truth to this. Yes I'm probably be called a racist because of this, but it is a two way street.

 

[Zman007]

Okay while we wait for Z let me tell you what I like about Trumps heathcare plan.

Now I was told when Obama care was coming my rates for go down. My and my employees health insurance went from 3000/ month to now 11,000 and it will be going up again this year. Plus nobody could keep their doctor.

Now as a business person I can write that expense off my taxes, although it still is a lot of money to pay. Only a business can fully deduct their premiums fully of their tax returns. Individuals cannot. One proposal in Trumps plan is to allow everyone that pays health insurance to fully deduct their premiums off their taxes. That will save folks a lot of money which they can put to sky high deductibles which the ACA gave us,

I do like the idea that insurance companies can bid across state line. Right now we have I think 4 insurance companies in my state allowed to sell health insurance and I do believe one is leaving at the end of the year. You don't think I may get a better price if there were 30 to choose from?

Requiring price transparency, where you can look up a doctor fee or cost of meds at different places before actually going there might save me some money and it will drive costs down.
Now a health savings account is a great idea. Since we are spending money anyway on premiums what is so bad about putting some money completely tax deductible in a health savings account for when I need it.

So tell me what you don't like about this.

I'm not a big fan of the ACA, it is a layer of added bureaucracy in a broken privatized system. It works well for some people, myself included during the start up period of my business. It is definitely a cost shifting method that really hits the upper middle class and middle class and has succeeded at increasing the number of insured people. It has failed in many respects. Insurance rates were skyrocketing prior to the ACA and one of the reasons rates were lower was prexisting conditions could and so often were excluded.

Trump's proposals. He keeps talking about removing the lines between states, and in theory this competition would lower prices though in practice health insurance competition does little to lower costs. Why? We do not have a health care market, we have an illness care market that optimizes to maximize profit off of sick people. Do not expect rates to be substantially lower if pre-existing conditions are not excluded. One problem with opening the markets, and its a problem of privatized health insurance in general, is it greatly increases administration costs. Also, all of these new companies are advertising and have redundant rolls, ever dollar paid for advertising or administration is wasteful and passed along to the consumer. Every new market a company enters raises their costs and due to an economy of scale they will still operate as local oligopolies with other companies. Networks and sticking to negotiated deals with local providers is a cost saving method of insurance companies and they lose the ability to do this when they open their geographic scale too far. Also, compliance with any state laws and regulations is greatly increased administration costs as well and serve as a hurdle for many companies.

Allowing people to deduct health insurance costs on their taxes is a good idea and one I support in a privatized system. A health savings account can also be useful but does little to address the massive problems of privatized health insurance.

Would Trump's proposals lead to drastically lower health insurance costs? No, they wouldn't. They may make the current system slightly more efficient, but in practice that is unlikely to take place. With the ACA removed many millions will again lose health insurance and unless the pre existing conditions clause is kept many other will be pruned off including many that need it.

His proposals do virtually nothing to curb one of the largest healthcare expenses, prescription drug prices.


I support Bernie Sander's Medicare for all program. We know that universal healthcare systems operate with drastically lower healthcare cost compared to privatized systems. There are many reasons for this, one is a reduction in administration costs, single payers systems are extraordinarily streamlined compared to a Privatized system with many different insurers. There are no advertising costs, with a single payer system there are no huge advertising budgets being passed onto consumers. A single payer system allows leveraging power to control drug costs and reduce the exhorbinate fees that are being charged by the pharmaceutical industry. Many people in the US cannot afford their medication. Private insurance companies woefully underfund health and wellness initiatives eschewing long term health benefits and ROI for short term profits. Single payer systems do not fall into the illness care system market failing and can prioritize preventive services and promote health and wellness which saves large sums of money long term thanks to a healthy ROI. People with universal healthcare go in more often for checkups and sooner often reducing the large costly proglems that escalate due to lack of care. In 2014 the Commonwealth Fund had yearly health costs in the US at $8,500/capita while the UK was only $3,400. Not only did the UK provide healthcare to 100% of its population, it do so at a much lower per capita rate and managed to provide better care. In no metric did the US healthcare system provide better care than the UK and the healthcare rationing argument holds little water and has been largely debunked. People in the UK did not risk bankruptcy every time they went into the doctors. Medical costs is the number one cause of Bankruptcy in the US and hundreds of thousands of people are forced into it every year.

Basically, we have many examples of well functioning single payer universal healthcare systems and instead are stuck clinging to a broken and terribly inefficient privatized system. Nothing Trump has proposed will fix our privatized system while Bernie Sanders has proposed a Medicare for All single payer system that would save the middle class thousands of dollars per year, break insurance from employers, cover everyone, and do so in a much more cost effective manner. Why on earth are we not learning from those around us and adopting models of healthcare that work?

 

[Tamora]

Yep...the NHS rocks!

 

[Zman007]

You aven't proved donald trump is a racist!
You are just being a talking head for other peoples opinions

My thoughts are my own. The man says racist things, has a history of racism, and appeals overwhelmingly to the racist minority in this country. He is following the template laid out by Hitler of scapegoating minorities while peddling white nationalism. It is safe to say the man is a racist.

 

[alienware83]

Im never voting for that fucking narcissitic moron Trump. Hillary is bad and yes she's incredibly corrupt but to say she's worse than Trump either means you are extremely ignorant or insane.

Trump is the Frankenstein monster created by the GOP because the right wing in this country has excelled at becoming the anti-intellectual party. Lets just look at a list of the bullshit behind Trump.

1. Target families of ISIS so we can combat their brutality(warcrime and immoral)

2. Need more torture, and he said the Geneva conventions was a problem.

3. Makes incredibly stupid claims about nuclear weapons like what good are they if you arn't going to use them. He doesn't even know what a nuclear triad is, and embarasses himself in debates by trying to understand and obfuscate the question.

4. Claims to be a non-interventionists and sounded a lot like a liberal/libertarian in the first GOP debates, but as evidence has shown, he did support the war in Iraq and intervention in Libya, and has also called to put ground troops to combat ISIS. An incredibly stupid and poorly thought out plan considering it only continues the stupid trend of literally trying to fight Islamic Terrorism, an ideology.

5. Incredibly anti-scientific. He's tweeted not only that Global warming is a hoax caused by the chinese, even though NASA and 200 other international scientific associations around the globe support the premise that its real and manmade. He has tweeted about vaccines causing autism, energy efficient lightbulbs causing cancer, and wind turbines being responsible for too many bird deaths. This is what you expect from a typical anti-intellectual shitposter in this country, not the POTUS.

6. Why would I trust him economically when he's gone bankrupt 4 fucking times? Thats like taking babysitting advice from Casey Anthony. Not only does he express no understanding of economics when he says things like he will use a Trade Deficit to pay for his mexico wall(thats not how a trade deficit works), but he actually claimed he can reduce a near 20 trillion dollar debt in the next 8 years if he's president. Something thats not actually possible, especially when he talks about how he's going to rebuild the military empire and spreads the same bullshit about Obama gutting our 600 billion dollar military(2015 budget) that was nearly 4 times bigger than china and bigger than the next 8 countries combined.

7. He's also suggested banning muslims and giving them special ID cards so we can identify them. Calling him hitler is no hyperbole when he makes statements like that. Especially when he also says we should use government surveillance to spy on their mosques. This is pure victimization. I'm not a fan of Islam but in the U.S., we have barely any Muslims, and barely any Muslim migration, unlike Europe. So why make Muslims the enemy?

This entire stupid fucking Muslim ban thing started because of a reaction to San Bernadino, a guy who was radicalized by ISIS, and as far as im concerned, was just another one of many mass shootings that has happened within the last few years. 14 people die from 1 Islamic extremist, but 1000 die from non-muslim americans and no one bats an eye or wants to do anything about it? Thats the Republican Party for you.

Its also incredibly stupid considering you can't ban an ideology. Its literally thought policing, something very similar to the PC culture and quite ironic considering this guy claims to have a problem with Political Correctness despite him being the most sensitive pussy in the presidential race. The only thing a Muslim ban will do is negatively affect people who arn't Jihadists. For Jihadists, all they have to do is say no no I love America, I'm a Christian, Trump #1, Islam is bad and then 3 months later boom they carry out another terror attack. You can't ban ideology, plain and simple.

Im not going to delve into how stupid the idea of a literal wall is, considering its been discussed by a lot of immigration experts and civil engineers. Trump claimed at the beginning of his presidential race that it would cost 4 billion dollars? Almost every civil engineer ive seen says an 80 foot 2000 mile wall made of concrete will cost upwards of 20 billion dollars and take 5-10 years to build, and would be stupid considering there are plenty of other ways to illegally access the U.S..

I also have no respect for Trump as a person. Saying that immigrants coming to this country from Mexico are rapists and criminals is not factual, and its demeaning. I know some will say he meant illegal immigrants, but this is not what he said. Its not true considering there is plenty of research showing first generation immigrants committ crime at a lower rate than the normal population. Mexicans, espeically illegals, are some of the hardest working people I know as well. They fill a gap in our economy on the lower end that is very necessary. I don't think many people realize how immigration, legal or not, is interwoven into our economy. Historically this has been true when many different ethnic groups of people who heavily migrated to this country at one point or another.

Also, making fun of disabled people, being a vulgar prick who throws out unnecessary insults to whoever criticizes his bullshit, getting into constant twitter arguments, and making snarky remarks about jews is something I expect from a teenager or a neckbeard from /pol, not a future POTUS.

To summarize, there are practically no good qualities about Trump. He is a dick, he a pathological bullshitter, and seems to have no understanding of American policies whatsoever(economy, foreign policy, etc). The reasons for his rise are purely because American voters(especially right wing voters) are ignorant and stupid, and mainly because they only subscribe to ignoramus stations like fox news, alex jones, or breitbart. Its not really surprising that he's the frontrunner of the republican party.

The best we can do is hope that the incredibly stupid and corrupt DNC can recognize they have a good chance of losing if Hillary is the nominee, and not Bernie, and make the correct decision to put him forward.

 

[alienware83]

“I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it. The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.” (USA Today, May 20, 1991) Trump

Retweeting white supremacists is also not a good place to start if you don't want to be called a racist. Like when he retweeted whites were killed by blacks at a rate of 80%, a statistic that is wrong by a factor of 6, and then told Bill O'Reilly he couldn't be asked to fact check everything. What a dumbshit. Again I expect this from some toothless hillbilly in an old country town I used to live in, not a presidential candidate.

 

[alienware83]

My thoughts are my own. The man says racist things, has a history of racism, and appeals overwhelmingly to the racist minority in this country. He is following the template laid out by Hitler of scapegoating minorities while peddling white nationalism. It is safe to say the man is a racist.

The fact that he has the entire alt-right(race realists they call themselves aka racists) and nearly every white supremacists behind him should say a lot about the type of person he is.

 

[Marlon LGHanger]

You Bernie supporters need to get a clue! The DNC is more corrupt than the GOP. The "super delegate" gig is rigged for Hillary.... Bernie has a NO chance of being nominated. If any of you believe that he does, how much would you like to bet $$$? If you really support socialism (aka - Marxism) to the extent that crazy Bernie advocates, then I suggest you move to Cuba, N. Korea or China. This country will never "feel the Bern"!
Get ready for TRUMP! I am predicting he will win in a landslide!