Vote for the next President of The United States

[Jackxxx]

I agree and the issues I think nobody can disagree. Immigration. Health. Education. Infrastructure. Foreign trade. Trade deficit. Employment. Taxes. I don't see between Trump and crooked killary, how crooked killary can be good at any of those issues. So far her own husband didn't do much about it. Although Clinton was a good President, crooked killary is completely different. She is progressive socialist and has nothing new to bring to the table. Its the same as obama or any of these crooks.

Trump is maybe not the best candidate, but it is for sure way better than ANY of all the politicians that have been in the campaign trail.

 

[Zman007]

I agree and the issues I think nobody can disagree. Immigration. Health. Education. Infrastructure. Foreign trade. Trade deficit. Employment. Taxes. I don't see between Trump and crooked killary, how crooked killary can be good at any of those issues. So far her own husband didn't do much about it. Although Clinton was a good President, crooked killary is completely different. She is progressive socialist and has nothing new to bring to the table. Its the same as obama or any of these crooks.

Trump is maybe not the best candidate, but it is for sure way better than ANY of all the politicians that have been in the campaign trail.

Immigration/Foreign Policy: Trump has advocated for a Ban on all Muslims which is fairly outrageous. His wall is a joke, hugely costly with no workable specifics. He knows nothing about Foreign policity and is demonstrably dangerous and uninformed on the issue.

Health: He has bounced between saying we need universal healthcare to opening up the markets. It will do almost nothing to curb costs. Universal Healthcare in a Single Payer system is by far the best example of Healcare that has been tried on our planet. We pay nearly three times what they do in the UK for worse coverage to fewer people with the fear of bankrupcy.

Education: Trump hasn't said much beyond Common Core.... but from the man that believes Climate Change is a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese to crash the US economy, I'm going with he doesn't value education.

Infrastructure: What has he said about improving Infrastructure. Certainly no specifics like Sander's reinvestment plan.

Foreign Trade/Trade Deficit: I agree the bad trade deals need to be addressed, but his open threads of hot headed tariffs are not the way to go about it, not at all.

Employment: Trump talks about how he is going to create jobs, don't see how as he hasn't given any specifics. Also, he openly says unemployment is something like 40%, the many has an aversion to facts and good data. How can you make the right decisions when you dont' have usable informaiton?

Taxes: Trump's tax plan is a disaster, his proposed tax rate would underfund and expand the yearly deficit over $1.2Trillion and run a $12Trillion dollar shortfall over ten years wish a net impact of adding $33Trillion to the national debty by 2036. Not to mention it is a giant giveaway to the rich. We couldn't come close to affording it even if we cut the entire $600+Billion military. All he says is that the economy will "take off like a rocketship". No reputable economists agree. It would be a disaster.

I despise Hillary Clinton, literally cannot stand the woman and will not vote for her. But, she will continue the status quo of Obama as a Corporate Democrat which means things will slightly improve over the Bush debacle but Corporations and Wall Street and the Big Banks will grow ever more powerful. I hate that, but the alternative is Trump... who is prone to late night twitter rants and snap decisions and moronic comments. A Trump presidency would be disastrous for the nation, the US economy, and the world economy. The man is an authoritarian fascists who has a demonstratively lacking understanding of the power of the Presidency. I fear that man, the only plus side is that he has likely killed the republican party and they can't claim to be the party of family values anymore, haha.

 

[Jackxxx]

Immigration/Foreign Policy: Trump has advocated for a Ban on all Muslims which is fairly outrageous. His wall is a joke, hugely costly with no workable specifics. He knows nothing about Foreign policity and is demonstrably dangerous and uninformed on the issue.

Health: He has bounced between saying we need universal healthcare to opening up the markets. It will do almost nothing to curb costs. Universal Healthcare in a Single Payer system is by far the best example of Healcare that has been tried on our planet. We pay nearly three times what they do in the UK for worse coverage to fewer people with the fear of bankrupcy.

Education: Trump hasn't said much beyond Common Core.... but from the man that believes Climate Change is a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese to crash the US economy, I'm going with he doesn't value education.

Infrastructure: What has he said about improving Infrastructure. Certainly no specifics like Sander's reinvestment plan.

Foreign Trade/Trade Deficit: I agree the bad trade deals need to be addressed, but his open threads of hot headed tariffs are not the way to go about it, not at all.

Employment: Trump talks about how he is going to create jobs, don't see how as he hasn't given any specifics. Also, he openly says unemployment is something like 40%, the many has an aversion to facts and good data. How can you make the right decisions when you dont' have usable informaiton?

Taxes: Trump's tax plan is a disaster, his proposed tax rate would underfund and expand the yearly deficit over $1.2Trillion and run a $12Trillion dollar shortfall over ten years wish a net impact of adding $33Trillion to the national debty by 2036. Not to mention it is a giant giveaway to the rich. We couldn't come close to affording it even if we cut the entire $600+Billion military. All he says is that the economy will "take off like a rocketship". No reputable economists agree. It would be a disaster.

I despise Hillary Clinton, literally cannot stand the woman and will not vote for her. But, she will continue the status quo of Obama as a Corporate Democrat which means things will slightly improve over the Bush debacle but Corporations and Wall Street and the Big Banks will grow ever more powerful. I hate that, but the alternative is Trump... who is prone to late night twitter rants and snap decisions and moronic comments. A Trump presidency would be disastrous for the nation, the US economy, and the world economy. The man is an authoritarian fascists who has a demonstratively lacking understanding of the power of the Presidency. I fear that man, the only plus side is that he has likely killed the republican party and they can't claim to be the party of family values anymore, haha.

I agree with the ban on Muslims. Why is it outrageous?? Is pure common sense. By the way he said TEMPORARY ban while we figure out a proper way to maybe give them asylum. What is wrong with that?? Dont you think is stupid to let everybody in without knowing who they are, where do they come from, what are their intentions?? Look at Europe isn't that enough example?? What else would it take for you to use common sense regarding immigration?

Lets say we don't build the wall. What would be in your opinion the proper way to end with illegal alien invasion once and for all?? We are talking her about a definitive solution. Not a single illegal alien crossing into the country anymore. Forever. What do you propose we should do?

In health, of course we pay way much more than other countries because our system is completely destroyed and corrupt. And Obama made it even worst. Now, the people who were unable to afford an insurance policy before, are still unable to afford it because prices didn't change, BUT ON TOP OF THAT, they have to pay a fine now every year to the government. That doesn't make sense from any angle. President Trump idea is correct, and is what I thought many years ago as the proper way to fix our health problem. The solution is through capitalism. Make companies compete between each other. If you increase supply, prices will go down. Is basic economics.

In education he hasn't said that much, but neither any other candidate from both parties. Well, Bernie has said he will give free education for everybody but the poor guy is even offering his wife ass for free to everybody so his opinion doesn't really count.

He hasn't done specific yet about a lot of things, but I agree with CUSP. It doesn't matter what specific plan is given, because everything has to pass by congress and everything changes depending on advises from the cabinet, world conditions, etc. Everything is relative. I wish he would give specifics just to shut down that topic that has been one of the critics from a long time.

True, Trump might result in a disaster for the country because he is a total experiment. HOWEVER, if he becomes the next president he has all the pressure on his shoulders of a country that is sick with a broken congress. If by any chance Trump doesn't do what he said he will do, he can get impeached in no time. The whole congress would be against him and the people too. So he knows what he's getting into. Just like people put their trust in Obama 8 years ago, I am putting my trust in Trump. My gut told me not to trust Obama and I was right, but again we didn't have many options 8 years ago. McCain in my opinion is a useless stupid clown, and Romney is a plain loser. Neither of them were worth it in both elections in my opinion. Trump I see it as a last hope with a percentage of gamble. I simply don't see any other option.

 

[not2big]

The best-known and best-preserved section of the Great Wall of China was built in the 14th through 17th centuries A.D., during the Ming dynasty (1368-1644). Though the Great Wall never effectively prevented invaders from entering China, it came to function more as a psychological barrier between Chinese civilization and the world, and remains a powerful symbol of the country’s enduring strength.

Accordingly, the Great Trump Wall will not effectively prevent "invaders" from Mexico; however, perhaps, it will become a major tourist attraction generating some revenue to offset its multi billion dollar cost.

 

[PurpleOnes]

Isn't Trump a bit wild let's put it that way?

In a sense of being president.

 

[Zman007]

I agree with the ban on Muslims. Why is it outrageous?? Is pure common sense. By the way he said TEMPORARY ban while we figure out a proper way to maybe give them asylum. What is wrong with that?? Dont you think is stupid to let everybody in without knowing who they are, where do they come from, what are their intentions?? Look at Europe isn't that enough example?? What else would it take for you to use common sense regarding immigration?

Lets say we don't build the wall. What would be in your opinion the proper way to end with illegal alien invasion once and for all?? We are talking her about a definitive solution. Not a single illegal alien crossing into the country anymore. Forever. What do you propose we should do?

In health, of course we pay way much more than other countries because our system is completely destroyed and corrupt. And Obama made it even worst. Now, the people who were unable to afford an insurance policy before, are still unable to afford it because prices didn't change, BUT ON TOP OF THAT, they have to pay a fine now every year to the government. That doesn't make sense from any angle. President Trump idea is correct, and is what I thought many years ago as the proper way to fix our health problem. The solution is through capitalism. Make companies compete between each other. If you increase supply, prices will go down. Is basic economics.

In education he hasn't said that much, but neither any other candidate from both parties. Well, Bernie has said he will give free education for everybody but the poor guy is even offering his wife ass for free to everybody so his opinion doesn't really count.

He hasn't done specific yet about a lot of things, but I agree with CUSP. It doesn't matter what specific plan is given, because everything has to pass by congress and everything changes depending on advises from the cabinet, world conditions, etc. Everything is relative. I wish he would give specifics just to shut down that topic that has been one of the critics from a long time.

True, Trump might result in a disaster for the country because he is a total experiment. HOWEVER, if he becomes the next president he has all the pressure on his shoulders of a country that is sick with a broken congress. If by any chance Trump doesn't do what he said he will do, he can get impeached in no time. The whole congress would be against him and the people too. So he knows what he's getting into. Just like people put their trust in Obama 8 years ago, I am putting my trust in Trump. My gut told me not to trust Obama and I was right, but again we didn't have many options 8 years ago. McCain in my opinion is a useless stupid clown, and Romney is a plain loser. Neither of them were worth it in both elections in my opinion. Trump I see it as a last hope with a percentage of gamble. I simply don't see any other option.

There is so much here that is blatantly incorrect I don't have time to address all of it not to mention you didn't answer any of my questions.

There are screening processes in place for refugees and screening immigrants. How many refugees have committed acts of terrorism in the last year? Guess what, raging racist republicans have committed far more acts of domestic terrorism. What is Trump going to do to stop them?

The wall is a terrible idea. Firstly we need a streamlined and fixed legal immigration system and a path to citizenship for those who are integrated into the united states. We cannot deport 11million people. Crossing the boarder isn't really an issue, as I said it is currently self correcting and throwing money at a worthless wall won't help. The biggest problem pertaining to illegal immigration is Visa overstays and the wall doesn't touch that.

Trump's capitalism plan will not fix Health Care. Why? We do not have a health care market, we have an illness care market where companies profit off of sick people and have little incentive to promote health. Capitalism is alive and well in this system and working exactly as capitalism does, it maximizes profit and grows the industry. No privatized system has ever worked and no major country sans the US is trying it. Here is a bit of literature on the topic, if you dig around their site you can find the ~200 page detailed analysis of 18 major healthcare systems in the world with 2015 data. The US healhcare system is garbage and needs to emulate the UKs and other developed nations. Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund

Yes, the ACA has many problems, but it has been fairly successful in allowing millions more access to healthcare and through the exchange many poor people can now afford healthcare. Unfortunately it is another level of complexity and barely a bandaid for a broken system. We need universal healthcare, it is the only model of healthcare in the history of our planet that has been shown to be successful and efficient.

Donald Trump is simply an embarrassment and does not possess the knowledge, experience, or temperament to be POTUS. Trump is a risk the world cannot afford.

Also, please list how Obama has destroyed this country? List things that are facts, not mere opinions. And, please use Bush as a point of comparison. How has Obama been worse than Bush? It is an honest question, I've seen so many from the right condemn him, but I have yet to hear any of them tell my why.

 

[mrwood]

Regarding ilegal immigration, i don't think it can be stopped. If people have nothing to eat, nowhere to work and no one who will help them... they have literaly nothing to lose.
So, you risk everything. For most, that means going to the US where there is a far bleak hope of a better future.
I'd do the same. I'd be an illegal allien.
And i bet you guys would too. Either that or you turn into a criminal. Which is an easier way to get money, but the cost might be your life instead of just deportation.

Regarding your next POTUS, i must say i don't really understand what Bernie Sanders says that is so scary or ridiculous that it isn't even considered.

I don't see anyone question the Defense Budget, the trillions that are spent every year in military technology and I&D, and war. Endless wars in Middle East to fight non-enemies of the US.
I don't see anyone questioning how there shouldn't be a disinvestment in war and an investment in education like Sanders did.

And i really don't understand how it is possible that this happens and not one person here has said something about it.
To me it says that you sort of agree that the war is warranted, and the trillions spent are justified.

But, apart from 911, which of the dozens of wars that the US was in, was there some kind of threat to the US or direct harm done?

 

[Cavalier]

Why do you think that nobody is questioning anything over here? If we were all stuck in a one way mind set why would we even have elections? I can assure you that there are people over here thinking the same as you are and there are those that have opposing thoughts.

You ask about what wars we may have been involved in that was a threat to us? I think in a way all of them We became a superpower after the second time we were dragged into a European world war. Why did we become a super power, to protect our self and prevent something like Hitler and Nazi Germany from happening again. So what do we get out of the deal? Everybody wants to criticize the US for getting involved! Maybe you should wake up a little, as much as you don't like it and disagree with the politics involved, the world is just a little safer because of the US

 

[Zman007]

Regarding ilegal immigration, i don't think it can be stopped. If people have nothing to eat, nowhere to work and no one who will help them... they have literaly nothing to lose.
So, you risk everything. For most, that means going to the US where there is a far bleak hope of a better future.
I'd do the same. I'd be an illegal allien.
And i bet you guys would too. Either that or you turn into a criminal. Which is an easier way to get money, but the cost might be your life instead of just deportation.

Regarding your next POTUS, i must say i don't really understand what Bernie Sanders says that is so scary or ridiculous that it isn't even considered.

I don't see anyone question the Defense Budget, the trillions that are spent every year in military technology and I&D, and war. Endless wars in Middle East to fight non-enemies of the US.
I don't see anyone questioning how there shouldn't be a disinvestment in war and an investment in education like Sanders did.

And i really don't understand how it is possible that this happens and not one person here has said something about it.
To me it says that you sort of agree that the war is warranted, and the trillions spent are justified.

But, apart from 911, which of the dozens of wars that the US was in, was there some kind of threat to the US or direct harm done?

There is an arrogance in the US, and a need to be the bully. No one is allowed to question the military budget without being labeled as not a patriot. The Military Indistrial Complex funnels Billions into lobbying our politicians and driving the War Machine. Bill Clinton in the 90s ran as a new Democat, a corporate friendly centrist that move the Democratic Party to the center and allowed the Repiblican Party to spend 25 years tacking further and further right to the extremes. Now, even Bernie Sanders is labeled a Socialist for promoting simple and effective Social Democracy.

 

[Zman007]

Why do you think that nobody is questioning anything over here? If we were all stuck in a one way mind set why would we even have elections? I can assure you that there are people over here thinking the same as you are and there are those that have opposing thoughts.

You ask about what wars we may have been involved in that was a threat to us? I think in a way all of them We became a superpower after the second time we were dragged into a European world war. Why did we become a super power, to protect our self and prevent something like Hitler and Nazi Germany from happening again. So what do we get out of the deal? Everybody wants to criticize the US for getting involved! Maybe you should wake up a little, as much as you don't like it and disagree with the politics involved, the world is just a little safer because of the US

To be fair, that was seventy years ago. Since, the US has been the policeman of the world. Kissinger and his ilk have been a meddling blight on the planet. Now, even the Democratic front runner is a hawk, Bush jumped us into two Middle East Wars, and since the start of our War on Terror world terrorism has increased over 900%.

The US meddles in one thing and causes another, look at the history of the US involvement in the Middle East. The Iraq war deposed one dictator, left a power vacuum that resulted in ISIS, and allowed Iran to be unopposed and sprint towards being a nuclear nation. And we only ended in that mess because of our meddling the decade earlier etc.

 

[mrwood]

LOL, you became super powers to protect something like Hitler from hapening again?? How about arming Israel and helping them financially when they are doing a slow genocide of the palestinians and created ghettos like HITLER?

That's what i'm saying - The US is the one that the government says you are being protected from. Look at the sh*t storm you caused in the Middle East causing havoc in the region since the 50's.

How about the drone strikes in Pakistan in 2015? What was that about?


I see a lot of concern for your "Taxpayers money" and where it should go... and some say it shouldn't go to social welfare, or education or whatever.... but i have yet to read one comment against the constant war state since forever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

It is INSANE! 200 years of history, 150years of war.

And no, the world is fucked up like this because of the US government.

Your last statement is a clear example of how brainwashed your opinion is regarding the US influence in the world.


Zman, thank you for your enlightened opinion.

 

[Cavalier]

To be fair, that was seventy years ago. Since, the US has been the policeman of the world. Kissinger and his ilk have been a meddling blight on the planet. Now, even the Democratic front runner is a hawk, Bush jumped us into two Middle East Wars, and since the start of our War on Terror world terrorism has increased over 900%.

The US meddles in one thing and causes another, look at the history of the US involvement in the Middle East. The Iraq war deposed one dictator, left a power vacuum that resulted in ISIS, and allowed Iran to be unopposed and sprint towards being a nuclear nation. And we only ended in that mess because of our meddling the decade earlier etc.

Yup, that was seventy years ago. And if we crawled back into our same old same old we were in before the war where do you think we would be today? Look I'm not here screaming patriotism or spouting how much better we are, we're not. I'm just saying that we are being criticized for being involved in world affairs. What country would you like to take the lead on these problems? Yup, it's easy to sit back in our armchairs and criticize every country and politician for what they are doing wrong. Do you think sitting in your armchair you really know what is really going on out there? I know I don't. There are thing going on in this world, between countries and behind the seines that you and I can't even begin to fathom. Sometimes you just have to put your faith in the right government to hopefully do the right thing. Does that scare the hell out of you, it certainly does me.

Personally I'm at a point in my life where I really don't give a rats ass anymore. I can't change any of it and would like to live out my remaining days at the comfort level I am currently at. What can i say? I'll leave all the bitching, complaining, stress and heart disease for the younger generation.

 

[Cavalier]

LOL, you became super powers to protect something like Hitler from hapening again?? How about arming Israel and helping them financially when they are doing a slow genocide of the palestinians and created ghettos like HITLER?

That's what i'm saying - The US is the one that the government says you are being protected from. Look at the sh*t storm you caused in the Middle East causing havoc in the region since the 50's.

How about the drone strikes in Pakistan in 2015? What was that about?


I see a lot of concern for your "Taxpayers money" and where it should go... and some say it shouldn't go to social welfare, or education or whatever.... but i have yet to read one comment against the constant war state since forever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

It is INSANE! 200 years of history, 150years of war.

And no, the world is fucked up like this because of the US government.

Your last statement is a clear example of how brainwashed your opinion is regarding the US influence in the world.


Zman, thank you for your enlightened opinion.

Ok, I bit into this one again, let's let this go in this thread. I would love to go back and forth with you on this, but It's not the topic of this thread as I mentioned before. If you would like to continue on with your debate please feel free to start a thread in the Gym Forum as I have told you before. I will see you there, in the mean time keep this thread on topic.

 

[mrwood]

Cavalier, if the US really wanted to do something it would use something else apart from military, drones, spies and lies.

I get what you're saying, but IMO that is not what the US does. It might be what the news tell you it does, but it is not what in fact is happening.

You can't fight fire with fire! You can't bring peace with war!

Think about it! How about if we went to the middle east with teachers, doctors, engineers and educate and give them tools to be better and live better?

If you don't like a particular regime because there is a dictator i'm sure the US inteligence could find a way to help the people of that country without confronting that dictator... Hell, they have deposed a whole bunch of them. Why don't they?

Peace is not here because it is not wanted.

Sorry, i want to stay on topic but to me it is very hard since i see it all conected.
The fact that Hillary v Trump is the only viable option for most US citizens atm is very unsettling for me.
It's like you live in a virtual reality.

 

[Cavalier]

I can't explain to you why the US or any other government does what they do. What is really going on behind the seines is beyond what any of us could understand. This is all a very good debate and it could end up with some eye opening insight, just not in this thread. Feel free to start a thread of your own to open up the debate again.

 

[BigO]

Trump all the way. My other choice would have been Ben Carson

 

[Dontrike]

Did you guys here the news?? If donald trump wins, people will no longer call their penis a "dick". From then on the male member will be referred as "don" e.g. "suck my don" or "try not to be such a don for once in your life"

This would be the only time that someone would reference sex when talking about me, lol.

 

[Rasputine]

There is an arrogance in the US, and a need to be the bully. No one is allowed to question the military budget without being labeled as not a patriot. The Military Indistrial Complex funnels Billions into lobbying our politicians and driving the War Machine. Bill Clinton in the 90s ran as a new Democat, a corporate friendly centrist that move the Democratic Party to the center and allowed the Repiblican Party to spend 25 years tacking further and further right to the extremes. Now, even Bernie Sanders is labeled a Socialist for promoting simple and effective Social Democracy.

If we are the so called bully then why does everyone come here?

 

[Jackxxx]

isn't social democracy same asa socialism?? LOL

There is no doubt we have some issues but we are by far the best country on earth. Just look at the fact of how many people want to move here every year from all over the world. Are they forced to do so? are they on drugs? No. They have come to the conclusion that this country is the best. While other people might prefer other countries, this is the one who gets more immigrants every year.

 

[not2big]

Trump is truly not part of the corrupt system and has indeed identified and surfaced many of our country's short comings. Although this has woken up and excited the silent majority, unfortunately, he has no clue on how to solve the problems other than stating he will return the country to greatness. But, how will he do this? All his weird stands are no longer proposals, but rather "suggestions."

By not releasing his tax returns will be his downfall.