Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

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[FONT=&quot]It is true that legislation authorized higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Julie Aultman, a member of the editorial board of the American Medical Association’s Journal of Ethics, told PolitiFact it is “very unlikely that physicians or hospitals will falsify data or be motivated by money to do so.”[/FONT]

 

[CUSP82]

Do you really think anyone from the AMA would admit they were doing that? Doctors and hospitals have been doing that for years. Let's see so Medicare pays X for this, I need to make Y to at least stay in business so who fills in the gap? Duh!

 

[Fizzby2233]

There is much that has to be done to lift people up whose jobs are being affected by the restriction and lock down. I have no doubt that there is much depression and unhappiness with the stay at home orders. Between society at large and the federal government much has to be done people suffering As a consequence of trying to keep the more vulnerable safe. A person who is eighty and fragile still has value and deserves protecting as much as anyone. We fight wars to protect our countries. People suffer during a war because of all the sacrifices required. People talk about helping out in the war effort. Well this is a war and the medical community and essential workers are the soldiers. My part of the war effort is easy to my mind. Wear a mask and get vaccinated. My brother is a doctor at a major hospital in Texas. He said people are feeling bad about not being able to be with their families and think that is not fair. I agree but he said he and his staff will be with the sick and dying for Christmas and new years and for months to come. Social distance a mask and a vaccine is such an easy lift for us to do to help the real heheroes have bought gift cards from my favorite restaurants and I don't intend to use them so the businesses can keep the money. I am just saying I believe that I am trying to do all the things that one person can do to help.

 

[Marlon LGHanger]

Just a few stats on world wide deaths YTD

17.9 Million Cardiovascular diseases
8,023,219 Cancer
4,883,559 Smoking
2,443,219 Booze
1,318,718 Traffic fatalities

Bottom line.... life is fragile! If you live in constant fear of losing your life, don't get fat, don't drink, don't smoke and don't drive!

 

[Fizzby2233]

Almost all of those are self inflicted or genetic except for traffic accident which can be someone else fault much like second hand smoke. I can't give someone my heart disease but I can give someone covid and they can give it. And so on. Agreed life is fragile so we need to live in caring and careful ways trying to make the most of our moment on stage. Keto. IF. Weights. Bettering yourself everyday. Making the most out of our fragile lives.

 

[Johnny D]

I understand your rationale. I'm glad that you're confident that Covid won't kill you. Not to rain on your parade but the flu vaccine is the least effective vaccine out there at 40%-60% depending on the dominant strains for the given year. I still advocate everyone get it because vaccines don't cause harm, but just saying.

What parade? You're not telling me anything I don't already know about flu vaccines. But, again, they've stood the test of time and the risks are outweighed by the rewards - even if the reward is that I only get a flu a few times less. And, again, Covid vaccines have not proven themselves over time.

 

[Johnny D]

It is true that legislation authorized higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting.
Julie Aultman, a member of the editorial board of the American Medical Association’s Journal of Ethics, told PolitiFact it is “very unlikely that physicians or hospitals will falsify data or be motivated by money to do so.”

Fraudulent, perhaps not. But testing asymptomatic people and listing them as infected with a virus is skewing the numbers and using them to advantage.

 

[Pegasus]

Some asymtomatic people are infected with a range of different illnesses this is valuable info that should be collected .

Testing accuracy is a different matter and has been an issue.

 

[HansTwilight]

I am not interested in a back and forth about these issues. The accurate information is all out there as far as how disease spread and what it takes for herd immunity as opposed to "herd mentality" There is substantial medical and scientic illiteracy manifest right now in our Q anon world. Ask me also what my facts are that the world is in fact round. Some thing have actually already been proven and epidemiologist understand how viruses work. Unfortunately public health is at loggerheads with capitalism and people's livelihood. But I think it can't be argued that dead people can't run businesses and it is not the best business practice to endanger, sicken or kill your customers. If everyone does their part and participates in communal sacrifice we will get through this to a better time. If people persist in conspiracy theories and baseless claims this will drag on. That is one of the lessons that history has already taught us 1918 pandemic.

Exactly, these mayors and governers are tearing apart people's businesses, income, life savings etc.

 

[HansTwilight]

Also, remove politics from the situation. Why would you not get the vaccine?

Long term safety? I get it, cool, don't get the vaccine then. No big deal.

Another hypothetical, would you only get a vaccine for a deadly disease? If a vaccine were developed for the common cold, would you get it? I sure would.

God knows what kind of sh*t they could be putting in those vaccines. The fact that they are resulting to big tech silencing Republican views on nearly all social media platforms and only posting Pro CNN bullshit just shows that they are trying to manipulate and control us.
Look at everything that has been happening, our society has changed so much. Even movies that came out 2-3 years ago has the same agenda of sh*t being pushed now. Liberalism, blatant over-empowering/victimizing black people, hen pecking and oppressing men in nearly all depicted relationships. This was all planned out. Now they are playing with people's lives and they businesses(our economy) via a virus that could have very likely been manufactured in a lab (maybe that was part of the plan). It makes perfect sense for them to eventually result to drugging us and using a pandemic as a convenient excuse.
Does anyone even remember George Floyd? $20 Derek Chauven get's off scott free due to insufficient evidence (he could have died from drugs). People will riot like crazy and it will get pushed so hard. They will continue to defund and dismantle police.

First off Fizzy good discussion; much will be learned.

Now who puts the vulnerable at risk? Is it societies job to basically close the country to protect vulnerable people? Is it not those that are vulnerable to protect themselves? If I am vulnerable I don't go out where people are around,I don't have them in my house, I have all that I need delivered and in the rare event that I need to go out I will wear the best mask I can buy and gloves. Why should the rest of the community stand on their heads to protect me? Exactly when did I have to stop being responsible for me and let someone else have all the fun?

Oh I know it's to save my life; got it. Now while my community is doing all it can to protect me what is happening to my community? People are losing their jobs; the business they built with their hard work is now gone leaving them broke. Alcoholism, drug use and overdosage,spousal abuse,childhood depression and well as adult depression are all on a steep incline. Education for our kids is in shambles.Homicides and robberies on the rise. I mean I really appreciate my community doing all that for me but it appears to me that what they are doing to protect me is killing them in many way faster than any virus could.
Oh but we're protecting my life and the small minority in this country.Oh but every life is precious; Yes each life is precious to a point and that point is when protecting you hurts other lives. Is it fair to ruin so many lives when it should be my responsibility to protect myself?

You're a god. Again, convenient excuses to fuck the entire world up. People need to wake up from this.

 

[CUSP82]

Fissy I think you missed my point. Oh yes things should be done to help the people who's livliehoods were shattered by the shutdown but their lives should never have been affected in the first place. No one asked me or my employees if we wanted to close down and go on unemployment; it was mandated. There was no choice. That's what dictators do. Why is it that me and my employees have to suffer because vulnerable people did not do what they should have done? We are all innocent. We committed no crime yet we are punished; why?

My dad is 97. As soon as this thing hit he stayed home. We brought him everything he needed. He made small outings to walk his dog and get fresh air. He did what he needed to do. Why was mine and many other innocent victims lives harmed? What gives anyone the right to harm others? I didn't make the virus. I do what I can to keep things more than sanitized. Who made the decision to not allow me my right for the pursuit of my happiness?

Now for your doctor brother who will be spending time over the holidays with sick people guess what? Virus or not he would still be spending time with sick people. That what doctors and nurses do; hell they signed up for it. They knew the job was tough when they took it. Why do we call someone a hero for doing their job? You don't think that doctors come in contact everyday with things far more deadly that covid? Ever work on a person with HIV or Hepatitis or mennngitits? That's what they are trained for and hat is the life they choose. If I remember hey get compensated pretty well.

 

[Johnny D]

There is much that has to be done to lift people up whose jobs are being affected by the restriction and lock down. I have no doubt that there is much depression and unhappiness with the stay at home orders. Between society at large and the federal government much has to be done people suffering As a consequence of trying to keep the more vulnerable safe. A person who is eighty and fragile still has value and deserves protecting as much as anyone. We fight wars to protect our countries. People suffer during a war because of all the sacrifices required. People talk about helping out in the war effort. Well this is a war and the medical community and essential workers are the soldiers. My part of the war effort is easy to my mind. Wear a mask and get vaccinated. My brother is a doctor at a major hospital in Texas. He said people are feeling bad about not being able to be with their families and think that is not fair. I agree but he said he and his staff will be with the sick and dying for Christmas and new years and for months to come. Social distance a mask and a vaccine is such an easy lift for us to do to help the real heheroes have bought gift cards from my favorite restaurants and I don't intend to use them so the businesses can keep the money. I am just saying I believe that I am trying to do all the things that one person can do to help.

Using the metaphor of war is helpful in getting people to bow to authoritarian orders and accept the premise of making enormous sacrifices to defeat the enemy. This is not a war - the virus isn't trying to take anyone's land or overthrow a governing power. You can't beat it into submission. Allowing yourself to accept the war metaphor is an easy and lazy way to get out of having to ask challenging questions and consider the facts. Moreover, primarily young people die in wars - quite the opposite is happening with this virus. And why don't we fight the war against the flu? I mean, if every life is important, as you say, you must support lockdowns, masks, vaccines, etc... to prevent flu deaths, right?

I had a lot of additional thoughts planned in response but then I read all of what CUSP82 said and asked you and realized he summed it all up. If you can't provide the evidence to support your assertions, at least answer his questions. Why are you ok with the massive amount of suffering and hardship that's being purposefully inflicted on innocent people and the likelihood that many entities will require vaccination, when we already know exactly who is vulnerable and how to protect them? (Aside from the fact that there are mounds of data showing lockdowns have been completely ineffective at "stopping Covid", mask compliance has no correlation to case counts, etc...)

 

[CUSP82]

Nah we really don't have to prove or even disprove assertions. Fizzy is saying what the MSM and some governors are saying. Is it the correct way to run things, ignoring civil liberties because of a "crisis"? I don't think so.

In what I do I speak to very many people daily and we tend to talk much about things like this. I have made some observations and to me they are disturbing. Who's all in favor of lockdowns and forever masks and forcing vaccines etc? Well my observations tell me that those in favor of all that stuff are not affected by all that stuff. Retired people can give a rats ass about what business closes down as long as they can get food and watch tv. People who have been deemed "essential" will have a job no matter what so they're all for it. And there are those who make more money on unemployment with the bonus so they are more than happy to see the business they work at close.
Funny is it not that some say all lives are precious yet only some are essential. Hey if all lives are precious was Hitler or Bin Ladens life precious?
I have a neighbor who can't wait for the next lockdown. When she told me we needed another one to beat this virus I told her this time we have to do it right. I told her we needed to close down the supermarkets and the Walmarts etc because they attract lots of people and they workers there should not be subject to the virus; they deserve to be safe. She agreed until she realized she wouldn't be able to get food. i told her to start farming in her yard.

 

[Johnny D]

I'm dumbfounded even by the notion that a lockdown will beat the virus. It's not a tornado or a hurricane that we just have to shelter through until it passes. Not sure where people even get that idea, forget about whether they've been effective.

I dunno... If someone makes a claim that unless 75% of the population is vaccinated the pandemic will continue, I want them to tell me how they arrived at that. If it's simply what they heard on TV or read on Facebook, then say so. If they came to it on their own, tell me how.

 

[CUSP82]

It is what has been said on tv as well as Fauci who has said it a few times. It's what they guess wil help as they have no facts and how do you have long term studies based on something that hasn't been around long.

You see they acted on presumption not on fact and changing peoples lives should only be attempted with facts not assumption.

It was mentioned here about long term possible lingering effects from this virus. Guess what? They haven't a clue about any possible long term effects. Since this virus arrived you had thousands of people going to a hospital that have never been near a hospital before let alone a doctor. The more people you examine the more issues pe person you'll find and it could very well be that the damage they are finding in some may have been there way before the virus hit.

 

[Fizzby2233]

CUSP82 I certainly appreciate your passion and the sense if enjoyment you get when engaging with members here. I believe there are others on here who understand the situation we are in and with time and perspective history will show a more accurate picture. The things I have said have mostly been taken apart here so I will refrain from engaging. I am as certain if my facts and understanding as you. I respect your right to disagree and I will celebrate the person you appear to be. I believe the pandemic is really I believe much is being misunderstood and confused with the discussions going on all over the country. It is not up to anything we say time will show how this goes and whose thoughts and decisions were more appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in. All the best and good health to you and hey happy festivus!

 

[Jay1983]

I ain't worried, because I will not be getting injected.

 

[CUSP82]

I ain't worried, because I will not be getting injected.

You can't get covid from a fish!

 

[CUSP82]

CUSP82 I certainly appreciate your passion and the sense if enjoyment you get when engaging with members here. I believe there are others on here who understand the situation we are in and with time and perspective history will show a more accurate picture. The things I have said have mostly been taken apart here so I will refrain from engaging. I am as certain if my facts and understanding as you. I respect your right to disagree and I will celebrate the person you appear to be. I believe the pandemic is really I believe much is being misunderstood and confused with the discussions going on all over the country. It is not up to anything we say time will show how this goes and whose thoughts and decisions were more appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in. All the best and good health to you and hey happy festivus!

You input, your questions and comments are what is vital to this thread but also vital to all of us here learning. There is no right or wrong here but the more info provided the better it is for all of us. Here you don't know your audience; we're just a bunch of names. Now behind those names are people of varying ages, occupations and interests who bring differing perspectives to what we're talking about. Presenting your side, your view is important and why?

Sadly nowadays we see only one side and refuse to look at the many other sides. That's now how people or a society grow and develope; it stops progress. Look at this country now. There is no discussion or middle ground. You accept my view or I will simply run away from any further discussion. That builds walls not bridges to bring people together.
If you wish to not engage more it is understood but please remember in life you cannot just walk away from those of differing views. It is for the benefit of us all that we discuss, not fight, but discuss so we all get better.

 

[Jay1983]

You can't get covid from a fish!

Of course, the fish left! Lol