Ah thanks Party. Excuse my ignorance. Yeah funny that about the liberty bit and how owning slaves was still ok and all. But hey my ancestors were under the thumb of the British at the same time so guess they weren't too much better either.
Thoughts on Charleston
- Thread starter dhusky
- Start date
Ah thanks Party. Excuse my ignorance. Yeah funny that about the liberty bit and how owning slaves was still ok and all. But hey my ancestors were under the thumb of the British at the same time so guess they weren't too much better either.
Of course. He'll be held accountable be a jury of his peers. Sometimes a guilty man or woman gets off. It's not a perfect system, but presumes a man is innocent till proven guilty. A law so old it goes to Roman tines.
Tamora
Retired Super Moderator, Member of the Month Aug
These are all great arguments...and thank God we have the human right of freedom of speech and the right to air our opinions as democracy gives us the right to do.
I can't even imagine what warped thoughts were going through that young man's mind when he sat there and took the lives of those innocent people. God forgive him...I know I can't.
I can't even imagine what warped thoughts were going through that young man's mind when he sat there and took the lives of those innocent people. God forgive him...I know I can't.
Slavery is an issue this country still bears today. My family never owned slaves but for some reason all whites some how are expected to bear the burden of that sin so long ago. I would have thought with the election of our first black president, tensions would gave eased. Guess not
Tamora
Retired Super Moderator, Member of the Month Aug
Ya know. This thread has been very enlightening to me. So few Americans right now, I suppose most are just sitting back checking this out but.... It's great. Having a forum to communicate across this little planet. We need more of this as humans.
I think the scars of slavery and the subsequent colour bar, Jim Crow laws, civil rights movement, etc will always play a role in American society. You can't just enslave a race of people and then later free them and say it's ok now we all friends and expect things to be harmonious. A black president might help but then he's mixed race as well and many Black Americans feel he hasn't addressed some of the pressing issues concerning race such as employment and the high incarceration rates amongst non-white people. Remember that a white man with a criminal record is 5% more likely to find work than a person of colour with no criminal record. Things will get better in time and they are improving no matter what you see on TV.
So my point is how many potential murderers are out there, men, women who get guns to protect themselves / and family, kids in the family who can access it, siblings or partners or whatever.
It still wouldn't be full proof in making sure guns only went to those who deserve them, but it would make a difference.
You would still have your right after they've made necessary checks, and you and your family are all good people, so there would be no problem.
well. This sounds a Tom Cruise movie . Convict before the crime is committed. They are coming for you right now Noob
Tamora
Retired Super Moderator, Member of the Month Aug
Doesn't carrying a firearm make people safe in the fact that they may feel that any potential confrontation is equal, regardless of their demeanor?
In my opinion that's not the answer.
In my opinion that's not the answer.
Men have been enslaving eachother for centuries, ever heard of serfs, not the blue funny creatures , that smurfs, serfs. Still going on by the way. What ya wanna do to stop it? Wanna go to war? You gonna go? I will if you do. Do ya like that. Back in the old country 300 years or so my family members were serfs, so were yours. Who do we see about that? Did you get over it? I did. Point being , people are bad to eachother sometimes. What would Jesus do? We ALL thru him under the bus, and he forgives us everyday.
It would be nice to pretend that we might all consider this and other instances from a logical point of view.
Culture:
US is different than any country in the world; the primary reason is because every country in the world is different from every other country; despite their seemingly similarities to outsiders. A good way to get your ass kicked by a mob of Thai men is to tell them they appear to be Cambodian; though I'll be damned to tell the difference.
One major factor about America, however, is it was founded upon, to a large degree, the idea that those who govern do so at the consent of the governed. Unlike all of the countries in Europe and Asia, Americans were not brought up under a culture heavily influenced by the concept of a divine ruler (King/queen, emperor, pharaoh etc.). Without the assumption of divine mandate, American's realize the man can be the author of his own fate and can gain power and influence based upon his ability to convince others of his cause (major aspect of first amendment).
Power, however, is jealously guarded and often abused. Those who obtain power will often commit terrible horrors to expand and then retain it; (Hitler, British Empire, Napoleon, Stalin, Imperial Japan, US expansion to the west).
There are several other rights given to individuals to prevent this from happening, the right to bear arms, the protection from quartering troops (taking your property and supplies for the use of troops), protection from search and seizure (further protection of your property from confiscation and even examination), and other amendments not enumerated here.
The one thing that brought these rights into effect to the individual was the second amendment; the right to bear arms. It was the ubiquitous tool used to guard and protect a man's property and extrapolated to protect one's community. It was considered the last line of defense of one's property; because to take one's gun it was often required to take one's life (the last and greatest possession).
This mindset, the inseparable connection of gun ownership to the protection and retention of life, permeates the US culture. How many US movies depict the defense of one's family, property, ideals, business, etc. without a gun? Not very many.
Now, knowing how gun ownership is so ingrained into the American identity one can begin to see how arguing against it is met with such passionate opposition by many Americans. The argument is received and interpreted as an argument against one's elemental right to defend everything one holds dear, which is horribly offensive to the American psyche. This makes casual examination of the validity of this aspect of our culture through an outsider's point of view and offensive exercise in futility.
If we desired, American's could examine the seminal cultural triggers of other countries through our own lens and produce the same level of cultural offense; British subservience to royalty, the siesta's obstruction of personal drive, the french avoidance of conflict, each offering many targets (as interpreted through the american POV) that has the opportunity to deeply offend. Perhaps topics for other threads.
(next are some illogical arguments used to argue against gun access)
Culture:
US is different than any country in the world; the primary reason is because every country in the world is different from every other country; despite their seemingly similarities to outsiders. A good way to get your ass kicked by a mob of Thai men is to tell them they appear to be Cambodian; though I'll be damned to tell the difference.
One major factor about America, however, is it was founded upon, to a large degree, the idea that those who govern do so at the consent of the governed. Unlike all of the countries in Europe and Asia, Americans were not brought up under a culture heavily influenced by the concept of a divine ruler (King/queen, emperor, pharaoh etc.). Without the assumption of divine mandate, American's realize the man can be the author of his own fate and can gain power and influence based upon his ability to convince others of his cause (major aspect of first amendment).
Power, however, is jealously guarded and often abused. Those who obtain power will often commit terrible horrors to expand and then retain it; (Hitler, British Empire, Napoleon, Stalin, Imperial Japan, US expansion to the west).
There are several other rights given to individuals to prevent this from happening, the right to bear arms, the protection from quartering troops (taking your property and supplies for the use of troops), protection from search and seizure (further protection of your property from confiscation and even examination), and other amendments not enumerated here.
The one thing that brought these rights into effect to the individual was the second amendment; the right to bear arms. It was the ubiquitous tool used to guard and protect a man's property and extrapolated to protect one's community. It was considered the last line of defense of one's property; because to take one's gun it was often required to take one's life (the last and greatest possession).
This mindset, the inseparable connection of gun ownership to the protection and retention of life, permeates the US culture. How many US movies depict the defense of one's family, property, ideals, business, etc. without a gun? Not very many.
Now, knowing how gun ownership is so ingrained into the American identity one can begin to see how arguing against it is met with such passionate opposition by many Americans. The argument is received and interpreted as an argument against one's elemental right to defend everything one holds dear, which is horribly offensive to the American psyche. This makes casual examination of the validity of this aspect of our culture through an outsider's point of view and offensive exercise in futility.
If we desired, American's could examine the seminal cultural triggers of other countries through our own lens and produce the same level of cultural offense; British subservience to royalty, the siesta's obstruction of personal drive, the french avoidance of conflict, each offering many targets (as interpreted through the american POV) that has the opportunity to deeply offend. Perhaps topics for other threads.
(next are some illogical arguments used to argue against gun access)
Place that "deadly weapon" on the floor and watch how many people it kills.
Then tell me again how it is not ignorant to fear the inanimate object.
Check the crime rate statistics in a Texas after they passed a conceal and carry law. Crime rate dropped incredibly after the bad guys figured out Granny is packin heat.
Tamora
Retired Super Moderator, Member of the Month Aug
Firearms and violence aren't the answer. Anybody can be a tough guy with a gun in his hands.
