Thoughts on Charleston
- Thread starter dhusky
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So how does this compare to the United States? The University of Chicago’s Bill Landes and I have collected data on all the multiple victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1999 (for a discussion of that information see the newly revised third edition of my book "More Guns, Less Crime"). If we only examine those cases where 4 or more people have been killed in an attack, the worst such attack was the Luby's Cafeteria shooting in which 23 people died. On average 10.56 people have died each year,
One reason for limiting the cases to attacks with 4 or more deaths is that I haven't collected all the cases in Europe, and the quick review here will miss fewer of the larger cases.
Obviously, my list above for Western Europe will not have many cases where 4 or more people have been killed in a multiple victim public shooting, and I have not included attacks in Northern Ireland. That said, the average number for Europe over the 9.5 years from 2001 to the present is about 11.8 deaths per year -- essentially the same as the U.S. rate.
From an article I was reading.
One reason for limiting the cases to attacks with 4 or more deaths is that I haven't collected all the cases in Europe, and the quick review here will miss fewer of the larger cases.
Obviously, my list above for Western Europe will not have many cases where 4 or more people have been killed in a multiple victim public shooting, and I have not included attacks in Northern Ireland. That said, the average number for Europe over the 9.5 years from 2001 to the present is about 11.8 deaths per year -- essentially the same as the U.S. rate.
From an article I was reading.
BigRooster
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For America itself and all it stands for.
Yeah take a rest. We have different views of the issue and it seems like we aren't going to change the others.
You're not getting it. You want to fight with fire with fire and spread the flames. There will always be criminals and illegal distribution of weapons. Clamping down on this would be made easier if the gun related crimes from weapons bought legally wasn't as big an issue.
But it's hard to focus on the black market and these criminal's, when your own kids are shooting people.
BigRooster
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BigRooster
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This particular incidence where his father bought the gun for him. Does not mean all guns used in shootings are bought illegally.
Kids don't go into the gun store and buy guns. They go to the black market or steal them.
How many times must it be said. A bad person is going to get the gun if they want it bad enough.
Look I like going back and forth but life is calling me. I will be back later. Have a good day or night. Whatever time it is in your part of the world.
There are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.
From an article I read.
Other countries have similar issues as well. The stats do speak don't they? Another quote from the article;
When I have been interviewed by foreign journalists, including those from Germany, they usually start off by asking for my opinion as to why multiple victim public shootings are such an American problem.
And of course, they are astonished when I remind of attacks in their own countries and I point out that this is a universal problem, but with a common factor: the attacks take place where civilians are banned from carrying guns.
When I have been interviewed by foreign journalists, including those from Germany, they usually start off by asking for my opinion as to why multiple victim public shootings are such an American problem.
And of course, they are astonished when I remind of attacks in their own countries and I point out that this is a universal problem, but with a common factor: the attacks take place where civilians are banned from carrying guns.
Tamora
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All I know is that in my everyday life I don't see guns, I never hear about guns and I never think about guns...apart from now.
Focus on helping to make humanity good for all of us; we must change hearts and minds and then guns will never be an issue.
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Actually, Columbine was 15 killed, and 21 injured. And the worst was Virginia Tech, with 33 killed, and 25 more injured.
Regardless, trying to prove which country has had the worst shooting fatalities sounds like a pretty morbid contest where the trophy is shame. And proves what? That everywhere has some pretty messed up people? You guys, us guys....we all lose that one. No one wins.
Plus, I do believe another quote from that book teaches something along the lines of "let those without sin, cast the first stone".
Hate doesn't always come from sickness. Sometimes, rash decisions are made from far less meaningful reasons. Simply wanting to harm another out of petty resentfulness, jealousy, envy, anger...The instrument doesn't matter, if the intent is there. Evil can have many avenues, and is simply like electricity. It will take the easiest path of least resistance.
If that's been a problem since biblical times, then a change is needed. But so long as ill intent is out there, rules will be ignored, location doesn't dictate behaviour, and actions speak louder than words, no matter how much change is wanted. As long as it took to make it, it will take to break it.
Regardless, trying to prove which country has had the worst shooting fatalities sounds like a pretty morbid contest where the trophy is shame. And proves what? That everywhere has some pretty messed up people? You guys, us guys....we all lose that one. No one wins.
Plus, I do believe another quote from that book teaches something along the lines of "let those without sin, cast the first stone".
Hate doesn't always come from sickness. Sometimes, rash decisions are made from far less meaningful reasons. Simply wanting to harm another out of petty resentfulness, jealousy, envy, anger...The instrument doesn't matter, if the intent is there. Evil can have many avenues, and is simply like electricity. It will take the easiest path of least resistance.
If that's been a problem since biblical times, then a change is needed. But so long as ill intent is out there, rules will be ignored, location doesn't dictate behaviour, and actions speak louder than words, no matter how much change is wanted. As long as it took to make it, it will take to break it.
jockinthebox
Retired Moderator, Member of the Month May 2015,
I actually had a distant relative killed in the VA TECH attack. He was a graduate engineering student, only 23, with a bright and promising future, snuffed out by a lunatic! Evil can strike anywhere & anytime. It's tragic, especially when young lives are taken needlessly, but I still believe the old adage "When guns are outlawed, only OUTLAWS will have guns!"
I am an avid gun owner. I shoot just for fun, hunting to provide healthy food for my family. I taught my kids gun control from a very early age. They all know how to aim, load and unload, send safely control their gun. I do love my freedom and right to own guns. I don't give two shits if others disagree with that.
I fear my government, and I fear your governments; every single one of the governments that I have looked into is completely corrupt. From the largest nation to the smallest of governments such as a school board or online forum. I fear every government that I have been involved with or under the thumb of. This fear has zero reason for me owning guns. My personal protection and the protection of my family has zero reason for my enjoyment of gun ownership.
The evil in men's hearts (women's also) do not have a thing to do with gun control. When you are ready to address the situations that cause the evil to come out of peoples hearts, and cause people in power to abuse their authority, and all the other pain and misery caused by people then let me know. When you are ready to discuss responsibility of people well then you have a discussion worth having. All this bullshit about an inanimate set of objects being a problem is silly.
I have handling guns since the age of 5 years old. I have literally lived my entire life surrounded by gun owners and been shot exactly zero times. I have witnessed exactly one person get shot. Which turned out to be a Russian over here on a visa who shot another rival gang member in my front yard. The gun he used turned out to have brought with him from Russia.
Now the pain caused by people in my life... Even upstanding supposed religious people has been fucking horrible. The pain caused to me by those in the powerful leadership positions have left scars on my soul that make me wish one of you would come shoot me right in the heart. Blow the painful hole right out of my chest, and when you do it make sure you use proper gun control techniques and don't just wound me. You have already wounded me enough.
I fear my government, and I fear your governments; every single one of the governments that I have looked into is completely corrupt. From the largest nation to the smallest of governments such as a school board or online forum. I fear every government that I have been involved with or under the thumb of. This fear has zero reason for me owning guns. My personal protection and the protection of my family has zero reason for my enjoyment of gun ownership.
The evil in men's hearts (women's also) do not have a thing to do with gun control. When you are ready to address the situations that cause the evil to come out of peoples hearts, and cause people in power to abuse their authority, and all the other pain and misery caused by people then let me know. When you are ready to discuss responsibility of people well then you have a discussion worth having. All this bullshit about an inanimate set of objects being a problem is silly.
I have handling guns since the age of 5 years old. I have literally lived my entire life surrounded by gun owners and been shot exactly zero times. I have witnessed exactly one person get shot. Which turned out to be a Russian over here on a visa who shot another rival gang member in my front yard. The gun he used turned out to have brought with him from Russia.
Now the pain caused by people in my life... Even upstanding supposed religious people has been fucking horrible. The pain caused to me by those in the powerful leadership positions have left scars on my soul that make me wish one of you would come shoot me right in the heart. Blow the painful hole right out of my chest, and when you do it make sure you use proper gun control techniques and don't just wound me. You have already wounded me enough.
OMG...I'm getting over bronchitis and you just helped me cough up more flem! I owe you one....LMAO!!!
ound:Still coughing and laughing!!!
ound:I once believed that too, but I learned the hard way and it almost got me killed. Some people are born bad IMHO. They are wired lacking compassion,empathy,love,nurturing,kindness and some are even soulless!
Respectfully, you are wrong and I was almost dead wrong! A 220 lbs muscular man that benches 400lbs and curls 100lbs dumb bells in each hand is a deadly weapon. ANYTHING, can be a deadly weapon.
I have had my concealed carry since 2001. I do not carry, but it is in my night stand.
My two cents...stop lowering our standards as a country. Stop pandering to extremists. Don't let the media destroy our great country with propaganda and fear mongering. We the people need to stop acting like sheep.
Be kind to one another. Show simple acts of kindness even if it means your accused of being manipulative or a PUA...LOL Just kidding.:becky:
I have been living at my current location for 1.5 yrs and I love that everyone here is color blind, gender blind, religion blind and for the most part hate blind. Each and everyone of us is responsible for our own actions and if we all lived a "pay if forward" type of lifestyle imagine how amazing the world would be.
To summarize:
I own a gun
Anything can be a deadly weapon
Stop acting like sheep
Stop pandering
Be kind
Always pay it forward
and.....lots and lots of good healthy sex!:amen:
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Educate me, I'd like to know. I'll read your constitution,if you read mine. Not that anyone cares about our constitution anymore, even our president. In any case, will help pass the hanging time, 7.5 lbs right now.
Media censorship is a problem in a lot of countries. They tend to paint everything rosy! Unlike in the United States it's all political and all we see is bad. Most of our networks have strong political backers which makes watching the news here virtually a waste of time.
If the world judges the United States of America by what it see's on MSNBC and Fox News that would explain why there is such a poor opinion of Americans.:bad:
Americans are not gun toting nut jobs. Ireland is not filled with the IRA. Germany is not filled with Nazis and all Muslims are NOT terrorists. We are human beings stuck in our political leaders personal agendas.
Just my two cents from a dumb girl posting on dick forum!
If the world judges the United States of America by what it see's on MSNBC and Fox News that would explain why there is such a poor opinion of Americans.:bad:
Americans are not gun toting nut jobs. Ireland is not filled with the IRA. Germany is not filled with Nazis and all Muslims are NOT terrorists. We are human beings stuck in our political leaders personal agendas.
Just my two cents from a dumb girl posting on dick forum!
