Jan 6th- the insurrection!

[CUSP82]

First off she was not the president was she? She was not allowed a private server with important stuff on it. Didn't the Russians hack the DNC computers? You mean they couldn't hack Hillarys? The FBI did find proof her computer was hacked.
Now she didn't intend to violate the law ( but possesion of classified stuff on an unsecured server IS a violation); does that mean if I don't intend to kill you but I do then it's okay and I don't get punished? Does that make any sense to you?
Oh but he had documents; just like most presidents and he was going to trash national security with those documents.
Most presidents have these things called brains. They read things and remember many things they have read. You don't think anyone who has been president has enough knowledge in their head that if they wanted to tank the country they could? There is no law against talking so why don't these guys if they wanted to tell the bad guys what they need to know just tell them verbally? Who the hell needs a document?
This whole thing is about housekeeping and trying to get Trump. Trump had documents; Biden had a bunch in 3 or 4 places; Pence had some. So it's not really uncommon is it?
If the law states, and it does, that no one other than a president can remove and possess documents than Biden and Pence are more guilty than Trump because they did break the law. It is debatable if Trump actully broke the law other than giving people a hard time getting them back when he thought they were his. Do you actually think he was gonna sell this country down the river?? Really?

 

[not2big]

Let’s get serious. There is no comparison between not intending to violate a law regarding the storage of confidential information on a private computer by a tech novice and not intending to kill someone. It’s not about the documents It’s about how he responded to the request to return them - obstruction and lying to federal agents not to mention intentionally sharing them with unauthorized individuals.

 

[Johnny D]

It’s about how he responded to the request to return them - obstruction and lying to federal agents not to mention intentionally sharing them with unauthorized individuals.

That's the crux of it, right there. Garland really didn't want to be where we are right now - he really wanted it all to blow over. But Trump's obstruction and lies forced the situation and, low and behold, NARA was right - he was intentionally and knowingly holding onto multiple government highly classified documents. And then it turns out he was even sharing national secrets with people he shouldn't have been. Trump claims to be the victim of a witch hunt when the truth is that he created this whole mess. It would have been nothing if he would have just returned what should have been returned.

 

[not2big]

Biden and Hillary had their attorneys meet with the “authorities“ to explain what happened which, apparently, mitigated the severity of their actions resulting in no indictments. On the other hand, Trump refused to let his attorneys do the same and decided to resist cooperation with the federal agents and ended up being indicted.

 

[Johnny D]

Now she didn't intend to violate the law ( but possesion of classified stuff on an unsecured server IS a violation)

No. She had to have knowingly transmitted classified documents to make it a crime.

If the law states, and it does, that no one other than a president can remove and possess documents

The PRA also applies to the Vice President

 

[CUSP82]

No. She had to have knowingly transmitted classified documents to make it a crime.

You mean the SOS didn't know if something was important or not?
Now when you're conducting government business on a private server can the Archive people get those government records that belong to we the people? Oh they can't because it's a private server.

 

[CUSP82]

Biden and Hillary had their attorneys meet with the “authorities“ to explain what happened which, apparently, mitigated the severity of their actions resulting in no indictments. On the other hand, Trump refused to let his attorneys do the same and decided to resist cooperation with the federal agents and ended up being indicted.

Like I said before cooperating allows you to get off scott free. So violating a law as long as you cooperate is not violating the law? There should be no punishment? Careless handling of sensitive stuff is not serious?
Now Biden had documents from his senate days. He had to remove them ( steal) from the classified setting he read them in. No penalty for that huh? I would bet those documents had something to do with Ukraine even back then. Okay they all get a pass and not Trump

 

[Johnny D]

You mean the SOS didn't know if something was important or not?

What she did was wrong and it was dumb, no doubt. But it wasn't criminal. The investigation concluded that she did not knowingly intentionally transmit classified documents. You can suppose all that you want about whether she *could* have known any of them were classified but the investigators came to a different conclusion. The weren't properly marked as classified at the time. Even the IG who reviewed the findings concluded the same. That's just not even close to the case against Trump. If the investigation into Hillary determined she knew at the time, I'd be one of the first raising my hand in favor of harsh prosecution.

Like I said before cooperating allows you to get off scott free. So violating a law as long as you cooperate is not violating the law? There should be no punishment? Careless handling of sensitive stuff is not serious?
Now Biden had documents from his senate days. He had to remove them ( steal) from the classified setting he read them in. No penalty for that huh? I would bet those documents had something to do with Ukraine even back then. Okay they all get a pass and not Trump

It's not about cooperating (and, again, being careless and being criminal aren't the same), it's about complying vs obstructing, lying, and covering up.

There's no "getting a pass" or not. It's nuts to me that anyone can think the DOJ is corrupt and politically motivated. Not only did Garland jump in to defend Trump against Carroll as well as argue to keep him from having to testify in the Strzok/Page case, but the FBI has been and is currently investigating some very public Democrats, too: T.J. Cox, Karen Carter Peterson, and Andrew Gillum (each of whom, of course, claim that they're the victims of a corrupt politically motivated DOJ). SMH...

 

[CUSP82]

Did armed FBI guys show up at an old man's house (Roger Stone) or pro-life person? Who was it that shut down he whole Hunter laptop thing and told social media it was all Russian disinfo although they had it in their possesion and knew it was Hunters. 61 former intel guys swore it was Russian and of course that was told to them by a Biden aid and no one asked questions. Who pushed Russian collusion when they knew it didn't exist. How long does it take to investigate a laptop and tax problems and lying on a federal gun form.
Oh but some very low level democrats are being investigated;got it. Hey do any of them have 20 LLC's and get lots of money from places like China, Russian and Ukraine? Asking for a friend. Not looking at that either.

Now back to Trump; okay he took things. Like Hillary maybe he didn't know he could take them? Maybe he thought, as he has said, that a president can do things like that. And what actually was his intent? Do you think we would do anything to harm the country? Sell them to Russians? You think he would give away important stuff about a country he wants to run again?

 

[not2big]

In order to support Trump’s claim that he didn’t know he could take documents, or do things like that, or explain his intent, he will have to take the stand himself and testify. We all know he will never do that. Accordingly, his only way out is to become elected president and either call off the the trial, if he can delay the process long enough, or pardon himself. Otherwise, as Barr said, he is toast.

Anyone else get the impression that Trump is obsessed with collecting and hoarding boxes Of documents?

 

[CUSP82]

Look we all know Trump is a jerk and loves to give people he don't like a hard time. That's a given. Biden, Pence, Hillary were all given a pass because they cooperated. From the beginning everyone involved in this knew Trump was gonna be a pain in the ass. The raid really wasn't necessary and the indictment, like many that happen could have been squashed. The DOJ could have given Trump the same type of nasty lecture that Comey gave Hillary.
There in no way in my opinion that Trump would have done anything with those documents that would harm the country, a country he wants to run again. We'll drag this trial out for politics; how could you vote for a man that's under indictment for espionage. This is just dirty politics and sadly some people will do anything to prevent him not from running but from winning. I wonder what they are so afraid of.

 

[Johnny D]

Again, it's not about whether they cooperated and he didn't. We are where we are because he lied about being in possession of documents and obstructed their return. The DOJ actually wouldn't have pursued this if he had returned the documents, even knowing that he shouldn't have taken them.

Over the course of a year:
NARA requested the return of all documents
Trump returned 12 boxes
NARA discovered numerous classified documents in the boxes
They requested the return of ALL remaining documents
Trumps lawyers claimed he had no more in his possession
NARA contacted the DOJ who then issued a subpoena
Trump did not comply with the subpoena so a search warrant was issued
15 more boxes were discovered

Trump not cooperative? Ya...I'd say so, and more. Obstruction and lying, more like it. Calling this a raid is a mischaracterization. He and his team dragged it out for a year with lies until finally it came to a search warrant. Garland's hand was forced by Trump - he wanted it all to blow over but how could he at that point? Nothing political about it. What on earth would Garland, a Trump appointed Republican who defended him against Carroll and kept him off the witness stand in Strzok/Page, gain from this? What's political about Garland?

As to whether Trump knew that it was a federal crime to be in possession of the documents... It's highly likely since Presidents are briefed on the PRA as well as the handling of classified documents. However, if he was never briefed on that... I suppose we'll find out when those who would/should have briefed him are questioned.

 

[not2big]

It’s not what he intended to do with the documents, its because he refused to return the documents, it’s why he lied about having the documents, and why he obstructed in the return of the documents That he is being charged with.

 

[CUSP82]

I know what he is being charged of and they knew before they went after the docs he was gonna give them a hard time and they pushed the issue to get an indictment. He got very different treatment than Hillary and Biden.

 

[not2big]

The Attorney General and the Solicitor General both decided there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Hillary And Joe and Trump’s appointed AG, Barr, didn’t take up the cases Either.

 

[CUSP82]

If you remember with Hillary the case never went to the DOJ; Comey signed off on it which was against protocol.
When Trump got in he specifically said he did not want to prosecute Hillary.

 

[CUSP82]

If you remember with Hillary the case never went to the DOJ; Comey signed off on it which was against protocol.
When Trump got in he specifically said he did not want to prosecute Hillary.

 

[Johnny D]

I know what he is being charged of and they knew before they went after the docs he was gonna give them a hard time and they pushed the issue to get an indictment. He got very different treatment than Hillary and Biden.

Hardly. They requested the return of the documents - something the others promptly did - in May of 2021. Trump should have returned all that he had then, as required by law. It wasn't until March of 2022 that they issued a subpoena and then finally had to search his home. Meanwhile, they continued making requests for the documents to be returned. Nobody pushed anything for an indictment except the Trump team.

 

[BigRooster]

This may be off topic some. All of us are entitled to a quick and speedy trial. I heard on a podcast that Jack Smith wants to hurry up and get this thing over. Why? He wants to get this fiasco swept under the rug as quick as possible. Trump is going to play this thing out as long as he is able.

Problem I have with Trump is that he needs to put his ego on the back burner and listen to his attorneys. I believe his issue is. Is that someone like soros will by them off, if he already doing that. Read from a leftwing site that another lawyer quit because he is hard to work with.
Someone mentioned earlier about how do we know Potato and Killary did or didn't release sensitive documents. Do we know the same about Trump.

There is a two tier justice system in this country and it should concern all of us.

 

[not2big]

Two tiered Judicial System indeed. The Republicans use it to maintain power and the Democrats want it to use it to continue the rule of law.