Is the West in decline

not2big

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They do not have to prove citizenship. The Constitution provides due process to non citizens. including undocumented immigrants, who are present in the United States. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments' Due Process Clauses protect against arbitrary deprivation of life, liberty, or property by the government, and these protections extend to all persons within the country, regardless of their citizenship status. This means that non-citizens are entitled to fair legal proceedings, a chance to defend their rights, and a fair hearing when faced with government actions
 

Ccb

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They do not have to prove citizenship. The Constitution provides due process to non citizens. including undocumented immigrants, who are present in the United States. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments' Due Process Clauses protect against arbitrary deprivation of life, liberty, or property by the government, and these protections extend to all persons within the country, regardless of their citizenship status. This means that non-citizens are entitled to fair legal proceedings, a chance to defend their rights, and a fair hearing when faced with government actions
That's what the immigration hearing does. However, due process in immigration court is less robust than in criminal court because it's a civil matter.
If they can't defend the governments allegation of illegal entry and prove they are citizens, they will be deported.
 
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Johnny D

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In addition to that, you can be here legally and also not be a US Citizen. Garcia was granted permission to remain back in 2019. But there are others who have been detained/deported with no hearing despite being here legally. Student Visas are being revoked without due process. Etc.
 

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three natural born citIzen children, one undergoing cancer treatments, were deported along with their mothers who were not provided the time to arrange to have the children to be provided custody by a U.S. caregiver.
 

not2big

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The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has admitted that a family who says they were “traumatized” when HSI (armed Home Land Security Investigators) agents raided their Oklahoma City home last week were not the suspects ICE was looking for. Apparently, the family moved into a house previously occupied by suspected human traffickers. The mother and her daughters were startled awake early last Thursday morning when around 20 agents with guns raided the house and seized their phones, laptops, and their life savings in cash as “evidence.” The HSI receipt for the items confiscated did not mention the amount of cash taken nor provided any contact information to retrieve the ”evidence.” Who knew that the Department of Homeland Securty has one of the largest armed units in government?
 

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The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has admitted that a family who says they were “traumatized” when HSI (armed Home Land Security Investigators) agents raided their Oklahoma City home last week were not the suspects ICE was looking for. Apparently, the family moved into a house previously occupied by suspected human traffickers. The mother and her daughters were startled awake early last Thursday morning when around 20 agents with guns raided the house and seized their phones, laptops, and their life savings in cash as “evidence.” The HSI receipt for the items confiscated did not mention the amount of cash taken nor provided any contact information to retrieve the ”evidence.” Who knew that the Department of Homeland Securty has one of the largest armed units in government?
Those kinds of mistakes happen in law enforcement though, don't they? I'm not sure it's indicative of anything unconstitutional or malevolent. If you're going to argue that the values of the west are being compromised and eroded, isn't it better to focus on just that?
 

akaTrex

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Everyone's claim when a ruling goes against them is that it's political. Trump's own appointees have ruled against him. Regardless, it's irrelevant. The ruling is the law until challenged and overturned. You don't like the ruling but that's the law. Tough. You'd prefer every President in the future only follow the law that's convenient for them???

You seem happy to ignore the legal tactics Trump has employed to go after people who disagree with him. Both sides play the lawfare game so don't pretend one is the victim.

Doesn't matter. The majority of people might support banning ownership of firearms. So you'd be ok with going against the Constitution to appease the majority of people, would you?

No it doesn't.

He was granted right to remain status in 2019.

Again... I refer you to the 5th and 14th Amendments.

You want to have an intellectually honest discussion or do you just want to keep ignoring facts and cherry picking only what supports your whims and desires. I think I know the answer and for some reason keep engaging

Did ALL the 2.5 million deportees that Obama deported receive Due Process via the 5th and 14th Amendments?

Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration

Like the Title: Is the West in Decline? Yes, the lawlessness of the BIDEN administration purposely allowed an invasion to happen.
No vetting. No testing for COVID and other diseases. No Background checks of criminals or terrorists.

The Lame Stream Media Covered for the Dementia Patient President and the Illegal Invasion.
Chastising Patrol agents on horseback who did not whip migrants.

Biden's handlers, Autopen, pardoned Mayorkas, and he will Never Answer for his Crimes.
Laughable: Mayorkas "The Border is Secure"!
 
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akaTrex

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three natural born citIzen children, one undergoing cancer treatments, were deported along with their mothers who were not provided the time to arrange to have the children to be provided custody by a U.S. caregiver.
Fact checked by Secretary of State Marco Rubio as untrue!
 

Johnny D

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Did ALL the 2.5 million deportees that Obama deported receive Due Process via the 5th and 14th Amendments?

Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration

Like the Title: Is the West in Decline? Yes, the lawlessness of the BIDEN administration purposely allowed an invasion to happen.
No vetting. No testing for COVID and other diseases. No Background checks of criminals or terrorists.

The Lame Stream Media Covered for the Dementia Patient President and the Illegal Invasion.
Chastising Patrol agents on horseback who did not whip migrants.

Biden's handlers, Autopen, pardoned Mayorkas, and he will Never Answer for his Crimes.
Laughable: Mayorkas "The Border is Secure"!
You just ignore everything I say, don't you. I already said that BOTH of them, Obama and Trump, violated people's Constitutional rights. Why is this so hard?!

And now another Trump appointed judge has ruled against him. Will The Right also claim that this one is a liberal activist? Likely.

And why are you so absolutely obsessed with Biden?! He's gone. He's out. Move on and let it go! How many times did Trump refer to him in the ABC interview? Good grief! Focus on the now and get over the past. Stop using Biden as an excuse for bad decisions that are happening now.
 

akaTrex

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From an Expert: Lora Ries, former acting deputy chief of staff at DHS

The Left is using Kilmar Abrego Garcia as their poster child to demand "more due process." It’s time to correct this intended confusion and show just how much due process aliens receive.

When an alien becomes deportable – either because they entered the U.S. illegally, overstayed their temporary visa, committed a crime, committed fraud, participated in terrorist activity, or other reasons – ICE charges the alien with ground(s) of deportability, which initiates removal proceedings with the Justice Department’s administrative immigration court system.

These are civil proceedings, not criminal. The administrative immigration judges are Justice Department employees in the executive branch; they are not federal judges under the Article III Judiciary of the U.S. Constitution.

That means deportable aliens in deportation proceedings do not have the same rights as a person in a criminal trial, such as being innocent until proven guilty, or the right to a taxpayer funded public defendant, etc. Removing a deportable alien is not a criminal sentence.

What will surprise most Americans is that deportable aliens in immigration court proceedings have yet a third opportunity to apply for immigration benefits.

After an immigration judge finds the alien is deportable as charged (most deportable aliens concede their charges), the alien can request "relief from deportation" by applying for asylum or a green card with the judge. If granted, ICE’s request for removal is denied, the alien is given the immigration benefit and remains in the country. That is, unless the alien subsequently commits another deportable offense. Then, ICE can repeat the process.

Now consider Abrego Garcia’s case. He didn’t follow Congress’ "due process" by applying for a visa or refugee protection before coming to the U.S. Instead, he snuck across the border around 2011. He did not go to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to seek asylum within his first year in the U.S., an important and commonsense time-limitation Congress imposed to prevent asylum fraud.

If you were really fleeing for your life, one would reasonably expect you would request protection soon after arriving here. But Garcia didn’t follow that due process either.

Eight years later, he was arrested in a Maryland Home Depot parking lot, after police suspected suspicious activity by a small group of men and found discarded marijuana under a vehicle. The Gang Unit assisting at the scene filled out a Gang Field Interview Sheet and alleged that Abrego Garcia was an active member of the MS-13 gang.

The police turned him over to ICE, which detained him, initiated deportation proceedings, and opposed his release on bond, arguing he was a danger to the community based on the gang report. An immigration judge denied bond in April 2019, citing the gang report as trustworthy evidence.

Then, Garcia sought asylum and withholding of removal with an immigration judge as a defense from removal. He claimed he would be persecuted by another gang in El Salvador, Barrio 18. The immigration judge denied asylum because he violated the one-year time bar, but granted the more limited withholding of removal, released him from ICE custody, and issued a final order of removal to any country except "Guatemala." This was the clerical error – the order should have read "El Salvador."

Despite that due process, Garcia continued to violate the law. In May 2021, his wife sought a temporary protective order against him in Prince George’s County, Maryland. Then, in December 2022, the Tennessee Highway Patrol stopped him for speeding and failing to maintain his lane.

The officer suspected human trafficking due to eight other individuals in the SUV with no luggage, despite traveling from Houston to Maryland. The owner of the SUV was a confessed human smuggler. Garcia was released with a warning for an expired license after the FBI instructed that he be released.

President Donald Trump has designated MS-13 a foreign terrorist organization. This negated Garcia’s limited protection from being removed to El Salvador under the Immigration and Nationality Act. And so, the Trump administration removed him to El Salvador.

The Left demands Abrego Garcia be returned to the U.S. and receive his due process. Once again, they are being dishonest with the American public.

They ignore the fact that Garcia didn’t follow the process due Americans to seek a visa or refugee protection to come here lawfully. Nor do they admit that he failed to request asylum soon after his illegal entry.

Abrego Garcia’s immigration case is not at all unique. Too many aliens ignore lawful processes to come to the U.S. or to follow it once here. Instead, they demand process if and when they are eventually caught by ICE.

The fact that the Left has made this criminal gang member their poster child for due process has only opened more Americans’ eyes to the complete abuse of our immigration system.
 
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Johnny D

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That's all an appeal to emotion and doesn't legally justify the fact that he was deported in violation of his Constitutional rights.
 

not2big

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Fact checked by Secretary of State Marco Rubio as untrue!
“Three US citizens, ages four, seven, and two were not deported,” Rubio said. “Their mothers, who were illegally in this country, were deported. The children went with their mothers. Those children are US citizens. They can come back into the United States if there’s – their father or someone here who wants to assume them. Apparently technically, not “deported,“ but instead sent to another country. The mothers claim they were not given enough time to arrange for their care in the U.S.

A Texas judge appointed by Donnie Two Dolls, ruled that the U.S. is not at war with Venezuela nor is MS13 an arm of the Venezuelan government and, therefore, the use of the 1789 Alien Enemies Act can not be used to authorize the deportment of Venezuelan undocumented immigrants without due process.
 

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“Three US citizens, ages four, seven, and two were not deported,” Rubio said. “Their mothers, who were illegally in this country, were deported. The children went with their mothers. Those children are US citizens. They can come back into the United States if there’s – their father or someone here who wants to assume them. Apparently technically, not “deported,“ but instead sent to another country. The mothers claim they were not given enough time to arrange for their care in the U.S.

A Texas judge appointed by Donnie Two Dolls, ruled that the U.S. is not at war with Venezuela nor is MS13 an arm of the Venezuelan government and, therefore, the use of the 1789 Alien Enemies Act can not be used to authorize the deportment of Venezuelan undocumented immigrants without due process.
Unfortunately, I don't believe the mother. They are being told what to say, just like Kilmar Abrego Garcia's wife.
Garcia's wife was audio recorded by authorities documenting her husband Kilmar Garcia's violent tendencies.

In a recording of an August 2020 court hearing obtained by USA Today, Sura describes the abuse she allegedly suffered at the hands of Abrego Garcia. Sura recalled multiple instances of alleged abuse, claiming that Abrego Garcia pushed her, grabbed her by the hair and slapped her. "On Wednesday, he hit me, like around like, three in the morning, he would just wake up and like, hit me," Sura told the court. At one point, Sura said she was trying to escape Abrego Garcia when she saw a neighbor walking their dog and screamed "help." Sura said Abrego Garcia then "grabbed me from my hair, and then he slapped me." The neighbor was allegedly stunned and "didn’t know what to do."

Additionally, Sura alleges in the recording that she tried to get an order in December, presumably in 2019, but that Abrego Garcia’s family convinced her not to go through with it because his father was sick. I have multiple photos/videos of how violent he can be and all the bruises he has left me." The allegations were written in Sura’s handwriting.

 

akaTrex

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Tennessee Police Release Video of Kilmar Abrego Garcia Traffic Stop in 2022
Driving from Texas to Maryland with 8 Passengers and NO Luggage in the automobile. Officers suspect Human Trafficking!
 
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Unfortunately, I don't believe the mother.
Fortunately, the framers of the Constitution conceived of a better judicial system than the one that you prefer. Instead of just asking random people what should happen, they allowed all persons their right to due process.
They are being told what to say, just like Kilmar Abrego Garcia's wife.
Garcia's wife was audio recorded by authorities documenting her husband Kilmar Garcia's violent tendencies.
Entirely irrelevant because........ well.... again.... the pesky and inconvenient US Constitution. Sigh...
Tennessee Police Release Video of Kilmar Abrego Garcia Traffic Stop in 2022
So what?! Honestly! So what?!
Here's what we should do... We should gather up all badge cam video in existence where the cop thought someone was committing a crime, go find that person who was never charged with a crime, and arrest them. Clearly if a cop thought they were doing something wrong, they obviously were and it's a travesty of justice that they were just free to go. I mean... why on earth would a cop ever pull over an innocent person? I don't know why cops ever let anyone go at all. I don't even know why we have courts - that's just a waste of time. If the cop says they're guilty of a crime that should be good enough.

This back-and-forth is a ridiculous waste of time. You're just going to keep posting things that help justify your feelings while I'm going to reply with Constitutional facts, and that people's rights shouldn't be violated because of how you feel. Why don't we just stop since we know that's not going to change.
 
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not2big

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Just what the west needs - someone else who wants to be Pope. The Whitehouse posts an Ai altered picture of Trump dressed as the Pope.IMG_4581.jpeg
 
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akaTrex

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Fortunately, the framers of the Constitution conceived of a better judicial system than the one that you prefer. Instead of just asking random people what should happen, they allowed all persons their right to due process.

Entirely irrelevant because........ well.... again.... the pesky and inconvenient US Constitution. Sigh...

So what?! Honestly! So what?!
Here's what we should do... We should gather up all badge cam video in existence where the cop thought someone was committing a crime, go find that person who was never charged with a crime, and arrest them. Clearly if a cop thought they were doing something wrong, they obviously were and it's a travesty of justice that they were just free to go. I mean... why on earth would a cop ever pull over an innocent person? I don't know why cops ever let anyone go at all. I don't even know why we have courts - that's just a waste of time. If the cop says they're guilty of a crime that should be good enough.

This back-and-forth is a ridiculous waste of time. You're just going to keep posting things that help justify your feelings while I'm going to reply with Constitutional facts, and that people's rights shouldn't be violated because of how you feel. Why don't we just stop since we know that's not going to change.
Crossing the Border Illegally, Beating Your Wife (Her Audio Admission), his wife petitioning the court for a protective order, getting caught in a Gang Sweep with MS13 Members, Human trafficking eight men across the USA from Texas to Maryland, All 8 gave Kilmar's address as their own, MS13 Tattoo on the Maryland Man's (Democrat Word Salad) Knuckles. Funny, he's from El Salvador!

No, he's not a Member of MS13. :-o

Democrats picked an upstanding man to use as their STAR illegal! Bet the people of Maryland love the fact they paid for the Dumbass Senator to fly to El Salvador for a Publicity Stunt!

Guess what, Kilmar Abrego Garcia is not coming back to America!
Oh, and the Illegal woman with three kids was deported. She chose to take them with her!
 

akaTrex

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That's all an appeal to emotion and doesn't legally justify the fact that he was deported in violation of his Constitutional rights.
Kilmar Abrego didn't HIRE an Attorney. Garcia is not entitled to a Public Defender! Garcia can represent himself "Pro Se" in Court!!!
 
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Johnny D

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As I predicted, you'll just continue to post things that help justify your feelings with no regard for the Constitution, while completely ignoring every point I made.

I'm out.