Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

[HansTwilight]

This has been planned for a long time, they will lock up those that prove not to be sheep

Again, this Chinese Cold bullshit is far from over.

 

[BigO]

Again, this Chinese Cold bullshit is far from over.

Yes Sir, you are correct

 

[madyogi]

I quite enjoy differences of opinion and sharing ideas. But the social discourse has completely devolved and the leaders on both sides are fanning the flames. They love for us to vilify the other side and egg us on. AOC and Omar spewing hate from the left and Trump & Co slinging it back from the right.

To your question of what's the purpose or goal... It's about generating fear. Authority thrives in an environment of fear. It gives them purpose - they can enforce their dictates in the name of protecting us from harm.

Yes, and yes. I would say the purpose is actually to hold onto power and influence (tightly coupled to money/wealth), and generating fear and hatred for some "other" is a great strategy/goal if that is your purpose.

In fact, recent studies have shown that a mask is ineffective as protection for the wearer. Check out the Danish study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine

That study is available here, and it actually says what I've been hearing for months, which is that the masks are not terribly effective as a profilactic (again, we need to get Magnum execs in the room), but they are good at keeping an infected person from spreading the virus into the environment around them. Further, there have been discussions about "viral load" going around. So a larger viral load generally makes for a more severe case, and masks do seem to reduce viral load. To go back to RickB's example, not wearing the mask while spray painting would be much more unpleasant than wearing a mask, even if some over spray does get through.

I vape and I can draw my vape through my mask, the virus is much smaller than a particle of mist from vape fluid so without a doubt, the mask cannot stop a virus.

This is more nuanced than you want to make it here. See this article for some thoughts about how the virus does or doesn't travel. It isn't necessarily the size of the virus but how the virus travels. If it's contained in droplets, droplets are typically larger than your vape stick vapor particles, and they sink quite quickly. Anyway, it's not straight forward.

 

[BigO]

If it is contained in droplets people should simply turn away when they sneeze.

This covid is no more dangerous than the flu and the real numbers support this.

99 plus percentage rate of survival. Nuff said

 

[BigO]

Just for the record, I mean no offense with my replies

 

[Johnny D]

If it is contained in droplets people should simply turn away when they sneeze.

This covid is no more dangerous than the flu and the real numbers support this.

99 plus percentage rate of survival. Nuff said

Depends to whom. For most, absolutely. However, if you have serious underlying conditions or are quite elderly, this virus is far more dangerous than the flu.

 

[madyogi]

If it is contained in droplets people should simply turn away when they sneeze.

My only point was it's not so straight-forward as masks work or not because you can vape through yours. And yes, people should always sneeze into a hand or an elbow, that's just common courtesy and also safer.

This covid is no more dangerous than the flu and the real numbers support this.

99 plus percentage rate of survival. Nuff said

This is just flat wrong, so let's do some math here.

According to CDC there are currently 11,465,722 reported cases and 249,670 reported deaths. The equation to calculate death rate is (DEATHS / CASES) * 100. So, (249,670 / 11,465,722) * 100 = 2.2%. The survival rate is then 100 - 2.2, which equals 97.8, so it's not greater than 99%. The death rate of the flu in the US has been relatively consistent between .1% and .2%. You can do the math using the numbers here if you like. That all means the death rate for Covid in the US since January is roughly 10-20 times as great as the flu.

I don't mind a spirited debate about what works and doesn't work, but let's at least do the math correctly based on the numbers we have. Further, you are welcome to say the numbers are wrong and fake news, but at that point we can all just make up whatever we want and it truly is a postmodern dystopia.

 

[Johnny D]

I agree that this virus is more dangerous than the flu. But how deaths are counted is creating a lot of confusion around just how dangerous it is. Cause of death is being attributed to COVID with far different criteria than when someone has the flu. Regardless, I think what's most important is to understand to whom this virus is more dangerous. As was stated in The Great Barrington Declaration, let's do our best to protect the vulnerable and stop imposing absurd restrictions and mandates on those who aren't. To the most vulnerable, yes, it's very dangerous. To me (and probably most of you) it's not.

 

[madyogi]

I agree that this virus is more dangerous than the flu. But how deaths are counted is creating a lot of confusion around just how dangerous it is. Cause of death is being attributed to COVID with far different criteria than when someone has the flu. Regardless, I think what's most important is to understand to whom this virus is more dangerous. As was stated in The Great Barrington Declaration, let's do our best to protect the vulnerable and stop imposing absurd restrictions and mandates on those who aren't. To the most vulnerable, yes, it's very dangerous. To me (and probably most of you) it's not.

Yep, this is a rational position to take. It's certainly admirable for any society to understand who among them is most vulnerable and take collective measures to mitigate that vulnerability. If the debate were just about "who is most vulnerable" and "how do we best protect them while otherwise going about our business," it would be much more interesting than having to refute poor math and trying to understand how Joe Biden (a corporate neoliberal democrat to his core) is somehow going to usher in a Socialist revolution in the US.

 

[not2big]

In fact, recent studies have shown that a mask is ineffective as protection for the wearer. Check out the Danish study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine (which was rejected by a few other publications because...... well.... politicization of masks and everything else).

There was also a controlled study in the USMC wherein they separated a few thousand troops - one group to completely follow all the distancing, mask wearing, etc... protocols and the other group not so much. The results showed that following all the "proper" protocols did not reduce infection rates.

I checked with the CDC and found:

SARS-CoV-2 infection is transmitted predominately by respiratory droplets generated when people cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe. CDC recommends community use of masks, specifically non-valved multi-layer cloth masks, to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others, and who are estimated to account for more than 50% of transmissions.Masks also help reduce inhalation of these droplets by the wearer (“filtration for personal protection”). The community benefit of masking for SARS-CoV-2 control is due to the combination of these effects; individual prevention benefit increases with increasing numbers of people using masks consistently and
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,along with the microorganisms these particles carry. Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.

You believe your sources and I believe mine, so let’s agree to disagree.

 

[not2big]

If it is contained in droplets people should simply turn away when they sneeze.

This covid is no more dangerous than the flu and the real numbers support this.

99 plus percentage rate of survival. Nuff said

I don’t believe my sister-in-law who lost 27 of her fellow residents to Covid19 in her nursing home would agree with you.

 

[Johnny D]

I checked with the CDC and found:

SARS-CoV-2 infection is transmitted predominately by respiratory droplets generated when people cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe. CDC recommends community use of masks, specifically non-valved multi-layer cloth masks, to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others, and who are estimated to account for more than 50% of transmissions.Masks also help reduce inhalation of these droplets by the wearer (“filtration for personal protection”). The community benefit of masking for SARS-CoV-2 control is due to the combination of these effects; individual prevention benefit increases with increasing numbers of people using masks consistently and
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,along with the microorganisms these particles carry. Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.

You believe your sources and I believe mine, so let’s agree to disagree.

That CDC info is talking about the mask offering protection for the non-wearer - stopping exhaled droplets. But you were talking about using the mask to prevent inhalation - protecting the wearer - which is what I responded to.

 

[not2big]

That CDC info is talking about the mask offering protection for the non-wearer - stopping exhaled droplets. But you were talking about using the mask to prevent inhalation - protecting the wearer - which is what I responded to.

Please reread my post. I specifically said the mask is a proven way to prevent the transmission of COVID and helpful to reducing the inhalation of the virus.

The CDC report confirms both aspects.

 

[BigO]

My only point was it's not so straight-forward as masks work or not because you can vape through yours. And yes, people should always sneeze into a hand or an elbow, that's just common courtesy and also safer.



This is just flat wrong, so let's do some math here.

According to CDC there are currently 11,465,722 reported cases and 249,670 reported deaths. The equation to calculate death rate is (DEATHS / CASES) * 100. So, (249,670 / 11,465,722) * 100 = 2.2%. The survival rate is then 100 - 2.2, which equals 97.8, so it's not greater than 99%. The death rate of the flu in the US has been relatively consistent between .1% and .2%. You can do the math using the numbers here if you like. That all means the death rate for Covid in the US since January is roughly 10-20 times as great as the flu.

I don't mind a spirited debate about what works and doesn't work, but let's at least do the math correctly based on the numbers we have. Further, you are welcome to say the numbers are wrong and fake news, but at that point we can all just make up whatever we want and it truly is a postmodern dystopia.

Now do all that math and do it for cases of covid death without a primary underlying condition.

The numbers are better than a 99% survival rate.

Those 27 people had Covid, but im betting all 27 had an underlying condition.

Many of the numbers have been admittedly falsified and/or have had spokespeople say the numbers were wrong.

The death rate in a senior home also skyrockets when a common flue gets into the building.

The numbers are media bologna.

 

[BigO]

To say my position is not rational is foolish, you don't understand why I say what I do. Its based on reading different sources and understanding what pre existing Condittions are which I have read a lot about.

I cant think of a more scientific way to say its bullshit.

We dont have to agree, we believe different sources are telling us the truth.

You where a mask around me and I will be very respectful of that and of you, hell, I would even buy you a beer.

 

[not2big]

The 27 may have had underlying conditions, but they would not have died had COVID not infected them. In my opinion, they died because of Covid.

 

[madyogi]

To say my position is not rational is foolish, you don't understand why I say what I do. Its based on reading different sources and understanding what pre existing Condittions are which I have read a lot about.

I cant think of a more scientific way to say its bullshit.

We dont have to agree, we believe different sources are telling us the truth.

You where a mask around me and I will be very respectful of that and of you, hell, I would even buy you a beer.

I'm sure we would enjoy sharing a beer. I share drinks and food with people with whom I disagree all the time, and I rarely leave with a bad taste in my mouth. My biggest problem these days is rhetoric online (from both sides) and on cable media (from both sides) mostly fails to reflect that reality.

That said, I'm aware of underlying or pre-existing conditions. These are also called co-morbidities. If I have a heart condition I've been managing for years and could have lived with many more years, but I got Covid and died a month later, I would attribute that death to Covid. Everybody's going to die someday. Should we just rule out cause of death as a thing? Should we just say, well, dude died, what are you gonna do? Maybe. Maybe not.

Like I said, I'm not a partisan in this debate, but to say with such certainly that the numbers are bullshit and there's nothing to worry about seems silly.

But that also doesn't mean we can't respect each other and maybe share a beer one day.

 

[BigO]

I'm sure we would enjoy sharing a beer. I share drinks and food with people with whom I disagree all the time, and I rarely leave with a bad taste in my mouth. My biggest problem these days is rhetoric online (from both sides) and on cable media (from both sides) mostly fails to reflect that reality.

That said, I'm aware of underlying or pre-existing conditions. These are also called co-morbidities. If I have a heart condition I've been managing for years and could have lived with many more years, but I got Covid and died a month later, I would attribute that death to Covid. Everybody's going to die someday. Should we just rule out cause of death as a thing? Should we just say, well, dude died, what are you gonna do? Maybe. Maybe not.

Like I said, I'm not a partisan in this debate, but to say with such certainly that the numbers are bullshit and there's nothing to worry about seems silly.

But that also doesn't mean we can't respect each other and maybe share a beer one day.

Let's get that beer then, cheers friend. I believe the numbers to be exaggerated and I believe covid is real. I just dont buy what many are saying.

I agree that we can agree to disagree and I walk away with no hard feelings.

 

[Thick_Unit]

So as we all know there is a Covid Vaccine on the way, but my concern is that there are considerations to make it mandatory. :bad:
Why is this necessary when only a small percent of people die from it? There has to be something in this vaccine that they are giving us. I worry about it lowering our testosterone.
The media is hyping this thing so much and now they are starting to lockdown and close off borders again, right when the vaccine is on the way.
Something is totally off here with all this.

another thing they're hyping is a shopping panic it's insane what they're doing ... basically the media is inciting a riot at stores

 

[Thick_Unit]

The 27 may have had underlying conditions, but they would not have died had COVID not infected them. In my opinion, they died because of Covid.

the primary underlying condition is lazyness ,(morbid obesity) basically all the underlying conditions circle back to "being lazy"