Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

[Ultimate Burrito]

I am not sure what or who I am legend is

It's a zombie Apocalypse movie

 

[BigO]

Ah, I will check it out. I'm telling my wife I was told to by a Burrito

 

[Johnny D]

It's disingenuous to say that a decline in flu cases was a result steps taken to prevent the spread of Covid without asking why there was also a decline where those steps weren't taken. Influenzas and non SARS-CoV-2 coronaviruses virtually fell off the map in Sweden (notorious for remaining open) and just about everywhere, really. The public health data shows no correlation between lockdowns/masks and a decline in the flu (or stopping the spread of Covid, but that's already been said).

 

[Fizzby2233]

It's disingenuous to say that a decline in flu cases was a result steps taken to prevent the spread of Covid without asking why there was also a decline where those steps weren't taken. Influenzas and non SARS-CoV-2 coronaviruses virtually fell off the map in Sweden (notorious for remaining open) and just about everywhere, really. The public health data shows no correlation between lockdowns/masks and a decline in the flu (or stopping the spread of Covid, but that's already been said).

Most all flu originate in east and southeast Asia. In China flu season begins in October and a number of months later begin appearing in America South America and Europe. Much due to easy travel thru air traffic. In 2020 the lockdowns in Asia the mask wearing and everything else done including restricted travel tamped down the flu. Unfortunately the monster that is the continuing Covid pandemic had already escaped. What happened in Asia with the flu shows that masks and social distancing works. Countries that are all in on preventive measures like much of Asia Australia and New Zealand are fairing much better than the country who are still fight over the right thing to do even with over 2000000 dead world wide. Until everyone has been touch by person tragedy the resistance to preventive measures will continue. I don't need a family member to die to know that wearing a mask is such a small thing to do for such great good and safety.

 

[Johnny D]

Except that, once again, the data shows there is no correlation between mask wearing and case counts. If you feel better wearing one, great. When people prefer that I wear one around them, I will. But I also know that the truth is there's no relationship.

It's easy to point to countries that "are all in" and say the measures must work because even the flu is gone. But, again, that's disingenuous since countries like Sweden and other places that aren't following that protocol are seeing the flu and other illnesses suddenly disappear this season. If "all in" was the cause, why aren't all the others being hammered? No cherry picking.

 

[Fizzby2233]

One needs to be aware that there is subjective truth and objective truth. I can say I know the truth is that the world is flat and I have not seen evidence to the contrary. Send me articles that I can refute because if it contradicts what I think it is obviously fake and suspect. I put my faith in the science and will continue to do so. Until everyone makes the kind of unified effort that some countries have made the pandemic will continue to grind on us. As long as we each have our own subjective truth about issues of health surrounding such a grave challenge we are fighting a losing battle. I am happy to be part of the solution and on the right side of history on this. That is not meant to sound smug it is the reason I can sleep at night without second guessing my actions or intentions.

 

[CUSP82]

Good to have faith in science but science always changes.

 

[Johnny D]

I provided the information on masks already. You rejected it because you didn't like the authors' Twitter aliases.

Here's another recent study on lockdowns https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.28.20248936v1
What's significant about this one is it's a rare case where "all else" was for all intents the same. The primary difference being the lockdown response.
“[W]e find no statistically significant differences between the two groups of municipalities prior to intervention. The strong similarity in infection rates at different timescales before the intervention strongly supports treating the lockdown as an actual quasi-natural experiment.”

Articles that refute the narrative are being suppressed by search engines and news (that's not conspiracy theory - that's just fact) so if you're just doing a search for effectiveness of masks for controlling spread, good luck. They're flagged by Google and others as misinformation. For example, after people kept talking about California being a Covid hotbed and the governor and mayors implementing more restrictions, I wanted to see how the current death rate compares with prior years. That information used to be extremely easy to find. It takes a lot longer and more searching now to get to the answer. Why would that be?! (turns out the current avg deaths per day is actually lower than the per-day avg for the prior 5 years)

 

[Pegasus]

Success is the best argument look to the places that had success and what they did .

On a lighter note.

 

[Johnny D]

Clever!

The point is that there are places considered "successful" where harsh restrictions weren't in force. People only want to copy the successful places that enforced interventions and ignore the fact that there is no correlation. Another example: In the US we have North and South Dakota - similar climate and population densities. When ND enforced a mask mandate, their mortality rate climbed. At the very same time, SD with no mask mandate saw their mortality rate decline.

I also don't believe success should be measured by Covid - public health has many more variables than simply one virus - but that's another topic.

 

[Fizzby2233]

It was good to hear Dr Fauci on Meet the Press saying that we need to double down on the health care measures like wearing masks social distancing and getting vaccinated. Yes as the science has evolved messaging has evolved that is actually smart not an admission of anything negative. What may be a shock and awe to some is the fact that these new behavior are something we all need to learn because Covid isn't the last virus crisis we will face in our lives. Yes bummer but true and the more we know and the better we are to hit it head on the better we will fair. If the next crisis is greeted by the same attack on scientically vetted and continually evolving information we will have the worst outcome in the world again.

 

[Johnny D]

The problem with that is the blatant disregard for science. Fauci loves to have the microphone and plays to the media. It seems you're willing to believe everything he says despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[Fizzby2233]

The problem with that is the blatant disregard for science. Fauci loves to have the microphone and plays to the media. It seems you're willing to believe everything he says despite evidence to the contrary.

I have not seen any evidence to the contrary from JAMA WHO CDC. Yes there are non scientific sites with a political bent that present pseudo science arguments. Yes Fauci is a public figure and often asked to be interviewed and lucky for those who have ears to hear that he can be that voice of reason so lacking in public discourse.

 

[Pegasus]

Umm isn't Fauci the head medical guy who has the most up to date knowledge . So far as I understand he presents the same message as other leading medical authorities .

I don't know where you are geting this other info but I would examine the quality of the source.

 

[Pegasus]

Clever!

The point is that there are places considered "successful" where harsh restrictions weren't in force. People only want to copy the successful places that enforced interventions and ignore the fact that there is no correlation. Another example: In the US we have North and South Dakota - similar climate and population densities. When ND enforced a mask mandate, their mortality rate climbed. At the very same time, SD with no mask mandate saw their mortality rate decline.

I also don't believe success should be measured by Covid - public health has many more variables than simply one virus - but that's another topic.

Nowhere in the US should be considered a success..

My home state of Queensland has had 6 covid deaths the Nothern Territory has had none.

 

[Fizzby2233]

Bottom line on the mask and 6 foot social distance discussion for me. Lets say that JAMA, WHO, CDC and all the highest ranking Public Health officials have gotten together to pull the wool over our mouths for completely bogus reasons. Well if I follow that information worse case scenario I look silly wearing a mask and keeping my distance from people in public setting, but at least I am not complicit in putting myself or others in potentially deadly danger. Best case scenario I keep myself and others safe and participate in the communal good without losing any of my freedoms (remember we can't smoke on planes and have to wear seatbelts by law and people do that).
Now lets say I believe the blogger sites and push the message that masks are unproven for safety of self and others. Up side I get lucky and don't get sick or maybe just end up asymptomatic and I am complicit in getting others sick. Worse case scenario I get sick maybe die and others get sick maybe die.
Tough choice but I chose the one that I just look silly if I am wrong and don't kill myself or others. But that is just me.

 

[CUSP82]

Don't you think public health agencies are just loving what's going on? No I don't mean the virus. Public health now is in the spotlight getting all this attention they never had before. They have real power and they exercise it whether it's well thought out or not. With power and attention comes all his new funding. Right they are simply keeping people safe and they care less about all the new power they have and the money that goes with it and I'm a ballerina.

 

[CUSP82]

Now let's go back to he mask thing. My county has more than 3 million people living here. We have been wearing masks for a long time. No matter where I go I never see anyone without one yet the numbers rise; why?
The answer is simple; public health failed again. The CDC with it's 6 billion dollar budget is supposed to protect our country from what is happening now. That is their mission statement. They are to prevent things like a covid virus from even coming close to here. The Chinese, WHO and Fauci all told us last January that this was not airborne transmission so they essentially did nothing until it was too late. It had nothing to do with politics but it sure was easy to blame Trump for their failure. Hey they even got on the man's case when he stopped travel at the end of January 2020 calling the ban all kinds of names when Fauci should have recommended that right off the bat.
Then public health says we'll all be safer if we wear masks yet the numbers go up.If you know anything about infection transmission you will easily see that people are wearing them wrong, not changing them frequently which all increase the risks of infection. There has not been one message from public health about the proper usage of masks so we send people out into the world thinking they're safe and they are increasing, not decreasing their odds of getting ill. Yup I follow public health guidelines which really don't exist other than wear a mask, wash your hands and stay 6 feet apart. Great guidance.

 

[Johnny D]

Umm isn't Fauci the head medical guy who has the most up to date knowledge . So far as I understand he presents the same message as other leading medical authorities .

I don't know where you are geting this other info but I would examine the quality of the source.

And many other scientists contradict him (not to mention the numerous times he contradicted himself) so he is far from the be-all, end-all voice in the discussion. I examine the quality of the source every time and have posted repeatedly where "this other info" is coming from.

Nowhere in the US should be considered a success..

My home state of Queensland has had 6 covid deaths the Nothern Territory has had none.

About the same as Taiwan, who hasn't implemented lockdowns. You're missing the point. The data shows no correlation between non-pharmaceutical interventions and "success". Cherry-picking countries who have done well to use as examples while ignoring places that have implemented the same measures and not done well and places that have implemented no measures and done just as well is not science.

 

[Johnny D]

I have not seen any evidence to the contrary from JAMA WHO CDC. Yes there are non scientific sites with a political bent that present pseudo science arguments. Yes Fauci is a public figure and often asked to be interviewed and lucky for those who have ears to hear that he can be that voice of reason so lacking in public discourse.

Data doesn't have a political bent. You're simply following the big-tech model and have determined that anything that goes against your adopted narrative is false.

Bottom line on the mask and 6 foot social distance discussion for me. Lets say that JAMA, WHO, CDC and all the highest ranking Public Health officials have gotten together to pull the wool over our mouths for completely bogus reasons. Well if I follow that information worse case scenario I look silly wearing a mask and keeping my distance from people in public setting, but at least I am not complicit in putting myself or others in potentially deadly danger. Best case scenario I keep myself and others safe and participate in the communal good without losing any of my freedoms (remember we can't smoke on planes and have to wear seatbelts by law and people do that).

Airlines have the right to tell their passengers what's allowed and not (gov't shouldn't even intervene) and seatbelt laws are an infringement on personal freedom that you're apparently willing to enforce on others.

Now lets say I believe the blogger sites and push the message that masks are unproven for safety of self and others. Up side I get lucky and don't get sick or maybe just end up asymptomatic and I am complicit in getting others sick. Worse case scenario I get sick maybe die and others get sick maybe die.
Tough choice but I chose the one that I just look silly if I am wrong and don't kill myself or others. But that is just me.

Of course you can do what you like. As I've said, when people are uncomfortable without me in a mask, I put one on. In fact, I ask them if they would like me to, despite the fact that they're just for show. But when they start being mandated and people are believing in their effectiveness despite the evidence, that's just blind ignorance.