Calling All Gainers
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Quick question? What do you do for a living?...I know EXACTLY what i am taking about. Your BS is just the same sh*t trotted out by your more than likely unhealthy GP. All this anti sodium BS is directed to the Americans who get WAY too much from their processed "food"
based diet. If you eat clean as i suggest the you NEED salt..No one is saying to salt everything just dont be afraid of it.
I bolded your idiotic vego propaganda statement, do not listen to anything this guys says...All you have to do is find the next 20 Vego or Vegans and you tell me..DO they look healthy? Eiether fat or anemic looking. We are omnivores and if your Caucasian then you evolved with a very high animal protein diet. Its all about genetic adaptations. Having said all that you should always source your meet from organic farms...The factory farms are poison.
LOL..you can drag up studies? Who cant, you can find studies that will show anything you want. Studies show that studies show what ever the person taking the study want to show. Paleo is as stupid as vego..Extremes are silly..In any case what longevity studies do you have on Paleo...Its a recent diet, they just aren't dying yet to prove this.
If you were standing next to me with your sh*t off or playing any sport with me you would see, im 40 yo and im confident i can keep up, beat you and more than likely make you want to put your sh*t back on.
Listen to this man.
Tell that to the Inuit, Lakota, Masai, and numerous other traditional cultures.[/QUOTE]
Ugh. Vegetable oils (man made ones like you're talking about) contain trans fats. Trans fats raise your ldl levels. That's why they're bad for you. Because they raise your bad cholesterol levels. BECAUSE THEY RAISE YOUR BAD CHOLESTEROL LEVELS
Fats and Cholesterol: Out with the Bad, In with the Good - What Should I Eat? - The Nutrition Source - Harvard School of Public Health
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Agreed
i see people on the HCG diet, not pretty at all. If injecting a drug made more a menstruating woman's urine in order to "allow" you to "live" off 500 calories a day makes sense to you then you're kinda asking for what you'll get.
Yep they look really out of shape. Mr. Universes, World Champion Bodybuilders, not to mention that Tony Gonzalez (the football player) might be the best tight end to ever play and his longevity and how long he's been able to play is incredible. I wonder why? I'm not advocating a complete vegetarian or vegan diet but you can't argue that it's effective.
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Have you ever compared the daily hardships endured by Inuit and Okinawans? Im not paleo fan but some believe the life span of the okinawans has alot to do with the supportive family structure. An Inuits? How long would anyone live in that climate and a tota hunter gather lifestyle? Im not sure but i do follow, to and extent, Metabolic typing. Diet isnt a one size fits all, we evolved in different parts of the planet.
Everyone should do themselves a huge favor and take a full food allergy panel.
There are healthy vego but it takes a huge effort to get it right and if you believe that the Mr Universe is a vego id like to do business with you! Those dudes are on steroids and you are trotting them out as healthy? PLEASE. I said ask the next 20 you meet not google pics form the net. You did find those on the net and you and i both know everything on the net is true!
"Diet" has become the new 4th topic not to bring up in polite conversation along with politic, religion and money. Everyone takes it so seriously. The ones NOT to listen to are the polarized camps...paleo and vego..Vegans you should just nod and smile because they have a genuine eating disorder.
Dude you are is such a rush to argue with me your not even reading what im writing...I said Trans fats are bad and vegetable oil is bad.
Big Fat Lies - YouTube
Fat Head - Cholesterol - YouTube
Do yourself a favor and watch the whole doco...the first half is a bit of an effort but when you see how the guidelines were created you wont be in such a rush to argue.
You're right, some of them might be on steroids. Tony Gonzalez is not, he is a health freak and has been able to stay healthy and playing at an incredibly high level for an unreal amount of time and he attributes it all to his vegan diet. That being said, vegan and vegetarian bodybuilding is on a huge rise right now, people are starting to realize that not eating meets really doesn't hold you back from from building muscle at all.
I agree with you on most of your points, I think a balanced diet is best too and the extremes in either direction are off. I just think it doesn't make sense to say vegetable oil is bad but cholesterol isn't when the reason vegetable oil is bad is that it raises your bad cholesterol.
What those videos don't do is distinguish between healthy fats/cholesterols and unhealthy fats/cholesterols. Yes we all know that unsaturated and saturated fats are healthy and that HDLs are good for you. The problem is that trans fats and excess saturated fats increase your LDL levels which is terribly unhealthy.
Nope, those are just clips, watch the doco or read the books as the go into LDL and HDL in depth,,,,well depth for a layman. LDL is clearly not good for you but people go bananas and avoid all Cholesterol. Animal fat from a clean source is good for you, if you argue with this great, just look in the mirror, see that guy? If it wasnt for animal fat you wouldnt be here. Its how we evolved.
If you dont think Tony Gonzalaz or 95% of profesional power athletes are on or have been on steroids then..Well..You havent been around enough top athletes. Remember how vehemently pople would have argued that Roger Clemens was clean. Whole other subject but ill likely disagree with most on that one as well. The danger of steroids is way overblown.
See the problem is people are mis educated they know what they know and apply no logic to this. What if what you know is wrong or partualy wrong?
2 month ago i would have disagreed that PE was possible.
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I'm not arguing that animal fat in moderation is bad for you, like I said I'm an advocate of a balanced diet just like you are. All of my posts about cholesterol except for that very first one have specifically pointed out LDLs as being bad not cholesterol in general. The cholesterol scare is real and to act like cholesterol doesn't lead to heart attacks is kind of asinine, yea HDLs are good for you but so many Americans eat trans fatty foods daily that high cholesterol (LDL) levels in our country is a big problem.
I've known lots of great athletes that have done steroids and I've known lots that don't. I play basketball basically weekly with kids that have either been drafted in the NFL (a second rounder and a seventh rounder this year) or will likely be drafted in the next couple years as well as kids who play college basketball on a NCAA tournament team 2 out of the last 3 years. And in highschool I played football with 3 kids who will likely play in the NFL in 2-3 years. I've spent lots of time around top level athletes and quit frankly some of them do or have done steroids and some of them haven't. I don't think the number is close to 95% but I'd say around 50% of them have used performance enhancing drugs. Most of the kids who I new who were great athletes that took steroids ended up not reaching close to their potential because they either had a bad attitude (willing to take the easy route) or they got injured (steroids are tough on your tendons). From my experience people taking steroids in a physical sport like football are usually going to have shortened careers.
Also you can kind of tell kids that are more likely to be doing steroids. They usually just have a different attitude than others. I HIGHLY doubt Tony Gonzalez has done steroids
as someone who is a newer member of the nutritional research community (yes im in grad school for nutritional research at the university of buffalo), i just have to find it quite intrigueing that most of my professors, other nutrition grad students, and most of the professors from other colleges that come in to give seminar speeches all happen to be vegetarian. and to be clear i am not a vegetarian. i am a nutritarian. i eat nutritionally dense food. it just happens to be 90% vegetation. the ones whom are the most knowledgable seem to be vegan...strange. its kind of how the smartest scientists seem to be athiest, but people think athiests are crazy.
as for the mr universe scenario, bodybuilders are hardly healthy, and there is a huge correlation between excessive muscle mass and heart failure early in late adulthood. i wonder how many mountaineers and cross fit athletes are vegetarian. i bet a massive amount
okinawans and other vegetation predominant cultures unanimously live longer than anyone in the world, and they are hardly even first world countries. i made the comparison to the inuit since he brought that culture up.
and im vegan. im 6ft 2" and 235lbs. i can most likely out run you and outlift you both in strength and volume. and am certainly much more pliable than you
and duh, of course you need salt, but i reccomend under 2000mg, 2 grams is more than enough daily. but guess whats packed with salt...animal products
and we only in a small timeframe of our history relied of animal protein, we have also hardly adapted ourselves to it. evolutionary adaption takes alot of time. the animals humanoids evolved from didnt rely on meat. we only started eating meat for survival. the crypts in our intestines are of various length which suggest an omniverous evolution, but thats once again evolved to be adaptable. it doesnt mean both are as good for you as another.
plain and simple plant based diets lead to longer lives, and dont lead to emaciation. im massive and im vegan/nutritarian
and plant based diets are related to much much lower rates of disease. its a falicy that you cant play athletic sports on a vegetation based diet. the vegan bodybuilding community is booming
and its not about whether cholesterol is good for you or not, or if salt is good for you or not. foods are that simple. food with high levels of cholesterol good or bad in them, and foods with moderate to high levels of sodium are associated with much higher risks of disease....its as simple as that. whether either of them are directly bad for you is irrelevant
unless your a licensed nutritionist, or dietician or a nutritional researcher already, i think i am more qualified than you are
also evolution has nothing to do with it. technology, access, and knowledge has everything to do with it. research (knowledge) suggests that plant based food carry much much more nutritional value. there are a much more diverse range of plant foods from all oveer the world, all with unique properties to the them that benefit your health, and have been proven to be superior (if applied correctly) to a diet. since access due to technology is at its highest, we can eat food with unique benefits from all over the world.
if humans were to not rely on knowledge and technology and only on adaption and evolution then we would not have computers, and lack of transport would have brought the world to a hault.
humans can survive and thrive on any diet, but we should be looking at direct nutritional benefits, and exploiting them, just like we are with all other current modern sciences.
what direct benefits on a nutritional level does meat consumption have over plant consumption exactly? something it can do that plants cant do, without in any way causing a negative impact on your health?
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if you say a balanced diet of meat and everything else is good for you, please cite exactly why where the data suggests so, and then i will cite in detail the exact reasons why i believe a nutritarian diet is better for health. and we will see where the more compelling evidence lies.
and im not suggesting vegetarianism. i think a diet should be about 90% plant based to 10% animal protein based due to ease since for me at my activity level its hard taking in 3000+ kcals of vegetation/nuts/fruit. but ideally i dont need that 10%. 10% is the playroom. there is no evidence that suggests a diet consisting of 10% animal product has any impact negatively on health. anything after 15% does though however, so i stick to 10% but ideally 0%
and im not suggesting vegetarianism. i think a diet should be about 90% plant based to 10% animal protein based due to ease since for me at my activity level its hard taking in 3000+ kcals of vegetation/nuts/fruit. but ideally i dont need that 10%. 10% is the playroom. there is no evidence that suggests a diet consisting of 10% animal product has any impact negatively on health. anything after 15% does though however, so i stick to 10% but ideally 0%
bigmoe5067, I merged your posts together. Next time if you have something more to add, try using the edit button. There's really no need to make that many multiple posts in a row when you can easily fit it all into one.
