A Doctor with Hard Flaccid - Updates and Advice

[Romero MD]

Good day Remero MD. Thanks for all you do here. You're surely helping us..hf sufferers. Apart from all common Hf symptoms.. I have two major symptoms that is really bothering me. I have this obvious twist/turning of my entire shaft from the base to the right that almost disappear when erect. It more obvious when I'm flaccid and tend to bend to the right side from the base when it's semi erect. What can I do to correct this?
The second symptom is a sagging balls... Sagging than my former balls before Hf.
Please help me.
Thanks in anticipation.

Hi Oluphil20 You're welcome. My pleasure

First symptom: Twist/Turning
- This is very common in Hard Flaccid. I also had a lot of twist. It was one of my main symptoms. And it is one of the few symptoms that I still have slightly. But I am much better now. This is very easy to solve. But it takes time... Currently, my rotation/twist is barely noticeable. And improving day by day.
- However, I had the rotation on the left side. My twist/turning was on the left.
- You have a muscle contracture in the right IC muscle. And now it has MORE strength (greater muscle tone), and has LESS flexibility than the left IC muscle, which creates the curvature to the right.

- Solution: You have to do gentle and light stretches in the opposite direction (towards the left groin) when your penis is erect (= push the penis slowly and progressively to the left side. Without causing pain!). To gradually gain flexibility again in the right IC muscle.
(Warning note: This is IC muscle stretches! This is not direct penile stretches (PE)! Nor is it to pull the penis in any direction! This is just pushing the entire penis shaft towards the opposite groin.)

- Solution 2: Place the flaccid penis on the left groin, for as long as possible, during the day.

Second symptom: Sagging Balls
- This is also very common. The main explanation is due to the HEAT of the muscle contracture in the pelvic floor. The function of your scrotum is to keep the testicles at a lower temperature than body temperature. If the temperature rises, your scrotum tries to place the testicles as far as it can. Therefore, the testicles descend further.

- However, in a person with Hard Flaccid, it can also mean the beginning of a Varicocele (congestion of veins in the scrotum). Consequently, the weight of the veins in the scrotum causes the scrotum to fall further due to gravity.
- So first, you have to be examined by a doctor, to find out if you have a Varicocele.

- Second, most varicoceles in Hard Flaccid are easily treatable. Because the venous congestion is due to the muscular contracture of the pelvic floor.
- Therefore, as you are treating Hard Flaccid, varicocele tends to disappear progressively. As you stretch the pelvic floor, the veins are NO longer congested. Because the veins are compressed, due to the contracture of the pelvic floor, which causes the blood not to circulate properly.
- How is your recovery from Hard Flaccid going? Have you had any improvements?

 

[Oluphil20]

Thanks a lot. Yeah... Getting better gradually.

 

[Pegasus]

Carefull with direct stretches if you have hf.

 

[Romero MD]

Carefull with direct stretches if you have hf.

Yes... I also got the feeling that my words could cause doubts...


I have already edited the post.
Thank you Pegasus


Again, guys:

Warning: You CAN'T do direct penile stretches! You have a muscle strain in your pelvic floor. Both the IC and the BC are stretched too much during direct penile stretches. You can make your injury worse by doing Jelqing or Stretches. Especially in the first weeks/months, when the muscle(s) has not even had time to heal properly.

 

[Zeroo]

Ok so a quick update. It has been about one week after adding reverse kegels and Hindi squat stretches to my routine. So far, I have had good progress. Every time I breathe while pushing gently out (like I need to pee) I feel the pelvic floor opening up. It feels looser. If I ever hold my breath during reverse kegels, my condition gets worse and I feel more tense. I haven't had sex, watched porn or used any sexually stimulating material. Although my PF feels better, I don't feel progress everyday. Obviously, it is too short a time frame to expect anything significant.

One thing that I have noticed, but I failed to mention in my previous post in this thread (#116), is that the exercises with the greatest impact for me are wall angels and calf stretches. Particularly, the wall angels. I do them everyday and if I skip a day or two, I immediately see a regression in progress. When I breathe into the pelvic floor after doing this exercise, I get a much stronger feeling of opening up. This is a bit of a conundrum for me. The improved posture aspect of the wall angels is clear but I have had physiotherapists tell me I have generally good posture overall, aside from a slight head forward posture from sitting in front of a computer. I wonder if there are any structural issues with my bones that might require adjusting. Would a chiropractor be helpful, Doc?

Oh and I noticed some spasming from time to time when I breathe into my pelvic floor. Any idea what this suggests?

 

[givemehappiness]

Have you thought about adding DMSO, some people claim to be having success with it.

 

[Romero MD]

Ok so a quick update. It has been about one week after adding reverse kegels and Hindi squat stretches to my routine. So far, I have had good progress. Every time I breathe while pushing gently out (like I need to pee) I feel the pelvic floor opening up. It feels looser.

Ok, great. Keep that pace. Keep doing Reverse Kegels just the way you feel relief. If you think that doing them more intensely harms you, then do them more lightly.

If I ever hold my breath during reverse kegels, my condition gets worse and I feel more tense.

Likewise: if you think that holding your breath is worse, breathe normally while doing Reverse Kegels. In fact, this is the correct way to do them.

I haven't had sex, watched porn or used any sexually stimulating material.

Ok, great. I would like you to try to keep this for 2 months in a row, while doing all the exercises.

Although my PF feels better, I don't feel progress everyday. Obviously, it is too short a time frame to expect anything significant.

Alright... this is an important topic. And I will try to help with my personal example. I think a good way to measure progress is from week to week (Ex: "Cool, I think this week I'm slightly better than last week..."). Measuring improvements from day-to-day is very utopian. Especially for chronic cases (several months/years of Hard Flaccid).
I had an acute injury, Zeroo. I attacked it right away, right from the start. And I attacked it from all fronts and with all the treatments that are in the first post of this thread, as soon as possible. And I DIDN'T see results and improvements from day-to-day...

In fact, during the first 3 weeks, I didn't see any improvement at all. It was only after that, that I began to see some progress and improvements progressively. And, as I said, I measured the results from week to week. I think it's a much more realistic, and less mentally stressful way of comparison. Muscle injuries take time to heal. Gaining flexibility takes time. Healing Triggers Points and contractures, anywhere on the body, also takes some time.

I know it is very boring... The human body is a wonderful machine, but you have to give it time to adapt. And the more aggressively you implement, ALL, the treatments of the first post, the faster the adaptation and the improvement will be.

One thing that I have noticed, but I failed to mention in my previous post in this thread (#116), is that the exercises with the greatest impact for me are wall angels and calf stretches. Particularly, the wall angels. I do them everyday and if I skip a day or two, I immediately see a regression in progress. When I breathe into the pelvic floor after doing this exercise, I get a much stronger feeling of opening up.

Ok, this is interesting...

This is a bit of a conundrum for me.

For me too... xD

The improved posture aspect of the wall angels is clear but I have had physiotherapists tell me I have generally good posture overall, aside from a slight head forward posture from sitting in front of a computer. I wonder if there are any structural issues with my bones that might require adjusting. Would a chiropractor be helpful, Doc?

I would justify those results by saying that you would probably have Anterior Pelvic Tilt... But if the physiotherapist told you that you have good posture, I think we can discard that part. It would be interesting if you could describe (or show us a video) the exact way you do wall angels. I would like to know...


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Zeroo, I am putting this in your post, but this is not directed at you. This is advice for all PEGym.

I am against ALL forms of alternative medicine. I apologize, if there are any practitioners or instructors on the site... But I feel an obligation to say this.

In my country there are only 3 accepted medical sciences: modern medicine, nursing and physical therapy. Only these 3 are qualified, credited and regulated. For a very simple reason: everything else is bullshit.

Over and over and over again, science has proven that alternative medicines are completely placebo. Acupuncture, Homeopathy, Chiropractic, Osteopathy, Naturopathy, Reflexolgy, etc... None of them are accepted by the government in my country. They are all bullshit. They are all placebo. The only area they really cure is your wallet. None of them have scientific validation. None of them have proven effectiveness. And many of them are even quite dangerous. Especially chiropractic! Chiropractic is very dangerous!

“Romero, but I had a cousin who improved with acupuncture… I had a friend who improved with homeopathy... My mother improved with Osteopathy... ”- Guys, sorry, I just don't care. Personal examples and personal opinions are NOT science. Your possible examples are simply good placebos. Individual examples are NOT science.

However, if any patient thinks that their MENTAL well-being will improve by doing Acupuncture, I will not object... I will criticize, but I will not object. People are free to do whatever they want. I will probably tell him that it is better to use the money to travel with his girlfriend... but these are just my personal options...

As a doctor, I only advise. I'm not a dictator. I don't rule anyone. All of my patients are totally free to do whatever they want, after listening to my advice. Does acunpuncture make you happy? Cool. Alright. Great. If you have the money for it, do it. But the evidence for PHYSICAL gains is absolutely zero. It's all placebo.

And no, this is NOT my opinion. I have NO opinion. I am just the voice of scientific evidence.

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So, Zeroo, my advice is: physical therapy, muscle stretching and a little gym. Gym, with great caution! Always light exercises, with low weight, to avoid Involuntary Kegels as much as possible.

Do you want to correct posture? Physical therapy, stretching and gym.

Another thing! My favorite posture exercise: Hanging from a pull-up bar.
I do calisthenics. My bar is next to my bedroom. I hang myself several times a day. It's not doing pull-ups! It's just hanging. 20-30 seconds. It is the best exercise for posture. It decompresses all vertebrae, from all our daily positions.

Don't you have a bar?... No problem. Hang on top of any door. Place a towel on top, so that your fingers don't hurt in contact with the wooden edges. Done!

Oh and I noticed some spasming from time to time when I breathe into my pelvic floor. Any idea what this suggests?

And finally... GREAT! I also had a lot of spasms… What does that suggests? It means that you are healing :biggrin1:

It means that your pelvic floor is finally gaining flexibility. And, as the human body is bored to adapt, the muscle is wanting to return to the baseline position of disease (the reason for the spasms). So in the early days, the more Reverse Kegels you make, the more muscle spasms you will feel. But this is a great sign. It means that you are finally making the muscle flexible.

Keep going, Zeroo!

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givemehappiness I will answer you tomorrow...

 

[Romero MD]

Have you thought about adding DMSO, some people claim to be having success with it.

Hi givemehappiness

You are talking about applying DMSO cream on the pelvic floor, right?

It's an interesting topic. Because DMSO was one of my first readings (on the site similar to PEGym), after getting sick. I was even very tempted to ask another medical colleague for a second opinion, and buy DMSO.

However, a few days later, I started reading the “HF Unraveled”. Days later I started reading the PEGym forums (where I found the “Hans Protocol”) and it was also during these days that I went to the Urology Department, where I was medicated with an anti-inflammatory, a muscle relaxant and an alpha-blocker.

As I started to understand a lot about my problem (HF) and see some improvements some days later, I decided that everything I was doing (said in the first post) was enough. And I left the DMSO on the back burner. I read that some people get better, but others don't. So, maybe I was betting on another chemical that wouldn't have that many results. I am a bit against drugs… The less they are and the less time I take them, the better

However, I have been reading about DMSO (from medical sources) and there seems to be some evidence that can aid in healing muscle problems.

Although it can have some side effects, it appears to be relatively safe in most people, if the product is prescribed by a doctor and purchased at a pharmacy!

If you want to try DMSO, ask your doctor for a prescription! Don't try to get DMSO from insecure sources, where you don't know the quality! Industrial-grade DMSO can have a huge variety of other chemicals, in which the adverse effects on the organism are far more harmful. Serious problems!

Do I think DMSO is absolutely necessary? No.

But, if you want to try it, I think it's relatively safe. Ask your doctor for a prescription! And keep in mind that it's a drug with possible side effects on various body systems. Even if applied to the skin, without being taken orally.

In addition, DMSO causes everything that is in contact with the skin to be absorbed. Therefore, wash your hands and pelvic floor thoroughly before applying DMSO. And wear boxers and pants that are clean.

I hope I was able to help

 

[Zeroo]

I would justify those results by saying that you would probably have Anterior Pelvic Tilt... But if the physiotherapist told you that you have good posture, I think we can discard that part.

If the pelvic floor is, in a sense, isolated from the rest of the body because it has no attachment points with joints, like other muscles do, then why would something like APT affect it?

Also, I have heard before from a PT that my quadriceps muscles are quite large and strong and my hamstrings look quite weak in comparison. Maybe I should strengthen hamstrings? I used to go to the gym a lot, but not anymore. I exercised all muscle groups evenly. I guess prolonged sitting has weakened my hamstrings. But why didn't it weaken my quads too?

It would be interesting if you could describe (or show us a video) the exact way you do wall angels. I would like to know...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ooIhKYs7c

So, Zeroo, my advice is: physical therapy, muscle stretching and a little gym. Gym, with great caution! Always light exercises, with low weight, to avoid Involuntary Kegels as much as possible.

:thumbsup:

Another thing! My favorite posture exercise: Hanging from a pull-up bar.

I love this one too, I do it regularly.

It means that your pelvic floor is finally gaining flexibility. And, as the human body is bored to adapt, the muscle is wanting to return to the baseline position of disease (the reason for the spasms). So in the early days, the more Reverse Kegels you make, the more muscle spasms you will feel. But this is a great sign. It means that you are finally making the muscle flexible.

Awesome, I wasn't sure how to interpret the spasm. Thanks again.

 

[Romero MD]

If the pelvic floor is, in a sense, isolated from the rest of the body because it has no attachment points with joints, like other muscles do, then why would something like APT affect it?

It is not entirely isolated. I never said that...
Why do patients with Hard Flaccid improve lying down and sitting, but they get worse standing up? Because standing is a position that causes greater muscle tension.
The same applies to APT. It is a position of the pelvis that causes greater muscle tension.

Also, I have heard before from a PT that my quadriceps muscles are quite large and strong and my hamstrings look quite weak in comparison. Maybe I should strengthen hamstrings?

I think it will be a little risky... because, if you hypertrophy the hamstrings, but don't train flexibility, they become even tighter. And tight hamstrings cause greater muscle tension. I think it would be better to stretch everything first. Train flexibility.

I exercised all muscle groups evenly.

Ok, great.

I guess prolonged sitting has weakened my hamstrings. But why didn't it weaken my quads too?

This happens to everyone. We sat on top of the Hamstrings. Sitting all day is a giant promoter of lack of flexibility in the hamstrings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ooIhKYs7c

Right... Okay... Hmm... I think they make you better, because it's a posture exercise. It is a great exercise to improve the overall posture of your entire body. What is the specific effect on the pelvic floor?... I can try to explore and study the subject, but at the moment, I think I don't know what specific effect they have on the pelvic floor...
They are improving your posture. This, alone, helps a lot.

Awesome, I wasn't sure how to interpret the spasm. Thanks again.

You're welcome My pleasure.
Keep going, Zeroo! You will kill the beast

 

[Zeroo]

After a few days of RK's I have noticed the pelvic floor feeling sore and it has become less comfortable sitting down. I also feel less of an opening feeling when I do RK's again. Consequently, I will tone down the intensity and frequency of RK's until the soreness goes away. Doc, have you experienced this?

One thing I have noticed is that I used to do involuntary kegels all the time. Now I don't feel the pelvic floor squeezing during various movements or after peeing.

 

[Romero MD]

After a few days of RK's I have noticed the pelvic floor feeling sore and it has become less comfortable sitting down.

Overtraining...

I also feel less of an opening feeling when I do RK's again. Consequently, I will tone down the intensity and frequency of RK's until the soreness goes away.

Exactly. That's what I was going to advise you. Reverse Kegels overtraining is not likely to happen, but it is possible. Like in any other muscle. You started your training too intense. Slightly decrease in intensity, do fewer repetitions and do partial Reverse Kegels. Do not do full Reverse Kegels, with maximum intensity, until you feel that you are ready for them.


If your pelvic floor has been contracted for so many years, trying to give it flexibility abruptly makes it painful. As your hamstrings would also be sore, if you haven't trained flexibility for several months and then do a 2-3 hours session of intense leg stretching. Do a more progressive workout. Gradually increases the intensity over the days.

Doc, have you experienced this?

I never experienced being very sore… Maybe only slightly sore in 1-2 days, when I did a lot (A LOT) of Reverse Kegels ALL day. Mainly, in the first days, after injury. Two reasons, because I think I never felt too much overtraining, despite doing a lot of Reverse Kegels.
1 - Because I was used to training a lot of Kegels, over the course of 10 years. Remember that this is how I created the injury... And I make love to my girlfriend twice a week. And, each sex session, never has less than 1 hour of penetration. In addition, I did edging 1-2 times a week. I also did some Intense Reverse Kegels, sometimes. But they were much less than the Kegels I did. Much less. I didn't know its importance until I started studying Hard Flaccid.
2 - I practice weighted calisthenics, 2-3 times a week. My pelvic floor also receives a lot of stimulation with this type of physical activity.
So, I think I haven't been sore (despite doing a lot of Reverse Kegels), because my pelvic floor has received frequent and intense stimulation for many years.


But there are many patients who feel sore, just like you. It's normal and common.


Zeroo, rest one day (or two days), for the muscles to recover. Do only Hindi Squats and Trigger Point massages for the next two days. After these 2 days, when you recover, restart Reverse Kegels with progressive intensity.

One thing I have noticed is that I used to do involuntary kegels all the time.

Yes... The problem that exists/existed in many of us... Including me...

Now I don't feel the pelvic floor squeezing during various movements or after peeing.

Great! That's what we want

 

[Hope77]

I have had the issue of having erection when laying down but losing it when i stand. I have thought this relates to poor posture and have stretched tight muscles and strengthened weakened ones in my body but i see only very little improvement even with Rks.

Is there a reason why i can't maintain erect ion when standing and also have significant hard flaccid when standing?

Thanks

 

[Romero MD]

Hi Hope77

I have had the issue of having erection when laying down but losing it when i stand.

This is very common. I had that too (and in the beginning it was really terrible). Muscle tension in the Ischiocavernosus muscle increases when we are standing. It is normal to feel relief (and have better erections) while sitting and lying down. We all feel relief lying down.

I have thought this relates to poor posture and have stretched tight muscles and strengthened weakened ones in my body

Good. This is very important as well. Train flexibility in all the muscles I mentioned in the first post - Pelvic Floor, Hamstrings, Psoas, Piriformis, Quadriceps, Adductors and Abs.

but i see only very little improvement even with Rks.

You must continue to train flexibility (massages, RKs and stretching), on the pelvic floor. To force the IC muscle to remain flexible even in a standing position.

Is there a reason why i can't maintain erection when standing and also have significant hard flaccid when standing?

Yes. Because the muscle tension in the Ischiocavernosus muscle is greater when we are standing. For several weeks I no longer had Hard Flaccid sitting or lying down, but I still sometimes had it standing. The cramp gets worse when we are standing.

Thanks

You're welcome, Hope77 How has your recovery been? Have you tried EVERYTHING I wrote in the first post?



Why does your Hard Flaccid get worse during bowel movements?

A study of the effect of straining on the cavernosus muscles: identification of ‘straining‐cavernosus reflex’ and its clinical significance

 

[DickerSchwanz]

Doc, thought about the IC muscle regarding stretching it physically which seemed hard.(Pegasus brought it up!)
The 2 IC "legs" are basically suspended on the ischial tuberosity left&right. I guess what one would call the ass bones one sits on(the innermost part..)

So I engaged a very hard IC kegel, sitting. Then I shifted my hips back and forth. (If sitting,legs@90°,pulling one knee away from the other forward/back, alternating)
Raising one ass check and/or doing rotating movements is a good variation.
Could clearly feel the stretch on the IC. Not very apparent when not engaging the IC but could imagine that this movement stretches a tight IC too.

It`s a movement easily done in the office or sitting infront of the PC, but practically rarely done.
Would recommend to people having issues due to same sitting position all day(and the 1 position PC wankers ).

 

[HansTwilight]

Great work Doc!

THis thread has been added to- [h=2]MUST READ Resources - Pelvic Floor Issues, Hard Flaccid, Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome[/h]
Keep up the great work!!!

 

[Romero MD]

Doc, thought about the IC muscle regarding stretching it physically which seemed hard.(Pegasus brought it up!)
The 2 IC "legs" are basically suspended on the ischial tuberosity left&right. I guess what one would call the ass bones one sits on(the innermost part..)

Yes, correct.

(In which thread are you and Pegasus talking about those things?... I would like to know... :biggrin1

So I engaged a very hard IC kegel, sitting. Then I shifted my hips back and forth. (If sitting,legs@90°,pulling one knee away from the other forward/back, alternating)
Raising one ass check and/or doing rotating movements is a good variation.
Could clearly feel the stretch on the IC. Not very apparent when not engaging the IC but could imagine that this movement stretches a tight IC too.

It`s a movement easily done in the office or sitting infront of the PC, but practically rarely done.
Would recommend to people having issues due to same sitting position all day(and the 1 position PC wankers ).

Okay. Yes. I'm understanding you... It is a very interesting idea.
BUT, with that exercise, I think that what you are feeling is mainly the stretching of the skin... For this stretch to really be a stretch of the IC, you would have to grab the other insertion of the IC (the corpora cavernosa).
So, let's do an experiment. Grab the penis behind the testicles, or at the base of the penis. And now move your hips back and forth, as you explained.
Do you feel a greater stretch?...

Warning: Hard Flaccid sufferers, be careful in trying this!! This stretch may be too strong, if your injury is not yet healed!!

DickerSchwanz, I have now seen the updates on your thread. Very good! I like it a lot! Keep going!

 

[Romero MD]

Great work Doc!

THis thread has been added to- MUST READ Resources - Pelvic Floor Issues, Hard Flaccid, Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome

Thank you very much Hans

It's a great honor to join your list

Keep up the great work!!!

I promisse I will try

 

[DickerSchwanz]

Yes, correct.

(In which thread are you and Pegasus talking about those things?... I would like to know... )

BUT, with that exercise, I think that what you are feeling is mainly the stretching of the skin... For this stretch to really be a stretch of the IC, you would have to grab the other insertion of the IC (the corpora cavernosa).
So, let's do an experiment. Grab the penis behind the testicles, or at the base of the penis. And now move your hips back and forth, as you explained.
Do you feel a greater stretch?...

Warning: Hard Flaccid sufferers, be careful in trying this!! This stretch may be too strong, if your injury is not yet healed!!

DickerSchwanz, I have now seen the updates on your thread. Very good! I like it a lot! Keep going!

(The IC theme is talked across several threads but stretching it seems mostly relevant in context with HF. I only use this website via the "new posts" and my "like" links ^^)

The penis stretch does not much, seems the suspensory ligaments prevent the stretch from having much impact on the IC.
I get some impact by stretching the penis to the side. Which then impacts the "IC leg" on the opposite side.

I can clearly feel the IC "leg", depending on which knee/hip side I move back, being stretched like said in first post. There`s no skin(outer layer around human) at the IC? It`s happening inside.
I flex the IC really hard and then make the movement and it pulls the IC muscle flex apart. Very clearly felt. Similar to pulling down on an arm while doing a biceps curl.
That`s why I think a tight or cramped IC could be impacted by such a stretch. But I don`t have a tight IC and can only notice the stretch very intensly when flexing the IC.

 

[Romero MD]

The penis stretch does not much, seems the suspensory ligaments prevent the stretch from having much impact on the IC.
I get some impact by stretching the penis to the side. Which then impacts the "IC leg" on the opposite side.

Yes. That's exactly what I do, to correct the curvature and the twist to the left. I push the penis to the right.

I can clearly feel the IC "leg", depending on which knee/hip side I move back, being stretched like said in first post. There`s no skin(outer layer around human) at the IC? It`s happening inside.
I flex the IC really hard and then make the movement and it pulls the IC muscle flex apart. Very clearly felt. Similar to pulling down on an arm while doing a biceps curl.
That`s why I think a tight or cramped IC could be impacted by such a stretch. But I don`t have a tight IC and can only notice the stretch very intensly when flexing the IC.

Be careful DickerSchwanz. We (Hard Flaccid) cannot do that. You are creating the Tug of War. Just like the stretching + Kegel, from the JP90 routine.
Hard Flaccid patients should not do that. We have to stretch the IC muscle without contracting it. If not, we are not promoting flexibility, we are promoting a muscle strain. Which was what led to Hard Flaccid in many of us.