Long, Larger, Overextended Flaccid – Updates and Advice

[Mike_b]

I dont know of this provides you with any hope or not but involuntary kegels are the hallmark of pretty much all pelvic floor dysfunction dude. If I remember though you don't have HF?

I dunno man, just trying to make sense of all this one day at a time.

 

[TKL_]

Okay last night my flaccid turned rock hard, and it's basically been like that since. Even a warm shower doesn't really do much. It's rock hard stiff inside. Yeah definitely need an urologist, I'm probably fucked for life.

What's going on inside there? First it was more plump, lighter and loose, then it became just loose and light, now it's really hard. No erections, absolutely impossible to even get a 10% erection right now, or pull it out. Glans has feeling, shaft skin has feeling, but I don't think the inside of shaft has much feeling. I think I see a whitish line going across my shaft skin.

 

[TKL_]

I also get basically constant tingles in my left foot below the knee.

 

[Romero MD]

I'm probably fucked for life.

Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hold on!
TKL, calm your mind... Not only, most likely, these thoughts are completely out of proportion to to the situation, but none of this will help, at all.

I told you to REST. Why are you trying to get erections?!
That is the exact opposite of resting. Whatever your injury, you are only making it worse.
I know, I know it's your beloved penis... But STRESS + TRYING ERECTIONS is only making the situation worse. Regardless of what it is. None of this will help.

Listen. I DON'T think, at all, that you have nervous dysfunction. I think quite possibly you are experiencing a progression of:
Stunned penis ---> Hard Flaccid, because the tissues are sore.

If you don't want to make the situation worse, don't touch your penis! Let the tissues heal. Forget you have a penis for at least two weeks.
The only thing I want you to do is have an extraordinarily healthy diet and sleep. (You can take the supplements if you want.)

For now, treatment is just:
1 - Eat healthy
2 - Sleep
3 - No stress
4 - Don't touch your penis!!

Is it agreed? Just this. Two weeks! And in two weeks, it’s not to touch your penis! Two weeks from now, you will be back here to update the situation.
Go see an urologist. To be more relaxed. Most likely, he will tell you exactly the same 4 points that I told you. But go! Make an appointment to be more relaxed.

During these two weeks, I want you to read two things:
- The HANS Protocol
- A Doctor with Hard Flaccid - Updates and Advice

And don't read with stress! Don't jump to conclusions! It is to read relaxed. Just to learn about anatomy and physiology of the penis and pelvic floor.
It's to read as if they are a science magazine, sitting on the couch, with relaxing music in the background.

Two weeks from now, before you touch your penis (!!!), come and say something.

I wish you a good recovery, TKL Don't stress.

 

[TKL_]

Thanks for the support, and I haven't tried to get an erection during the last two days, I just know I really can't, it's hard as a rock.

I have some of the long flaccid symptoms too, as I can't control the force of peeing.

If I don't have a nervous dysfuntion, why do I get tingling in my perineum/balls and down my left leg? These are all symptoms which have developed during the last few days? I also can't feel myself turtling, as I have in the past.

 

[Romero MD]

it's hard as a rock.

Contracture of the smooth muscle of the penis.
Due to the protective contracture of the Ischiocavernosus muscle and Bulbocavernosus muscles. Because you "overtrained the penis."

Motor nerve dysfunction implies flaccid paralysis and reduced muscle tone (totally soft penis). Exactly the opposite of what you have.

I can't control the force of peeing.

Because your Bulbocavernosus muscle is sore.

I get tingling in my perineum/balls and down my left leg? I also can't feel myself turtling, as I have in the past.

You are experiencing sensitive symptoms due to nerve compression. Due to the contracture of the IC and BC muscle, which compress the nerve.

Nerve compression is NOT nerve damage.

I have some of the long flaccid symptoms too

If you really had nerve damage, you would have all or almost all of the symptoms. And it wouldn't be after a week of injury. It is too early to make that kind of conclusion.

You have no nerve damage. You have nervous compression due to muscle contracture. REST and the muscle contracture will improve

 

[TKL_]

Contracture of the smooth muscle of the penis.
Due to the protective contracture of the Ischiocavernosus muscle and Bulbocavernosus muscles. Because you "overtrained the penis."

Motor nerve dysfunction implies flaccid paralysis and reduced muscle tone (totally soft penis). Exactly the opposite of what you have.



Because your Bulbocavernosus muscle is sore.



You are experiencing sensitive symptoms due to nerve compression. Due to the contracture of the IC and BC muscle, which compress the nerve.

Nerve compression is NOT nerve damage.



If you really had nerve damage, you would have all or almost all of the symptoms. And it wouldn't be after a week of injury. It is too early to make that kind of conclusion.

You have no nerve damage. You have nervous compression due to muscle contracture. REST and the muscle contracture will improve

Anything I can do to help the muscles become uncontracted?

 

[Romero MD]

Anything I can do to help the muscles become uncontracted?

Yes That is exactly what you will learn from the two links that I sent you

BUT! BUT for now it's just REST! You have an acute injury, TKL. Physical therapy should NOT be performed on very acute injuries. You have to give the injury a few days (two weeks) to heal.

That's why I told you to read it over the next two weeks. If you still have some symptoms in two weeks, start doing the exercises that you will learn in those two links. And start with them lightly.

Do NOT touch the penis during these two weeks!

Relax TKL

 

[TKL_]

Even before I had the masturbation session I had quite recently (probably like three weeks back or so) had a minor PE injury which was followed by some reductions in shaft sensation. Everything felt sensitive while erect though. Should've just kept my damn hands off, so I wouldn't be in this mess.

I appreciate the time you take to help others. I'll try my best to relax, but as you said I apparently have an acute injury.

Any use in heating the penis with an infrared lamp?

And how much touching is bad? Should I keep it in place all the time somehow? I haven't really fondled with it (excluding gently this morning), not even in the shower.

The penis was not hard for like 20 minutes this morning, but rather soft as it had some blood in it. Sensations were definitely there, I quite gently did examine it when it was in this soft state with my hands.

I ordered this a few days back: https://store.cure-erectile-dysfunction.org/products/sr-cream/ , it should arrive in like 3-4 weeks. Do you think I should use it then?

 

[Romero MD]

I appreciate the time you take to help others.

You're welcome, TKL It's my job. It's what I love.

I'll try my best to relax, but as you said I apparently have an acute injury.

I apologize. By ACUTE injury, I meant RECENT injury. I didn't mean serious injury. Sorry for the misunderstanding...

Any use in heating the penis with an infrared lamp?

If you have an infrared lamp, yes, you can use... Heat helps in recovery. But cover your testicles with reflective paper. Infrared rays penetrate deeper into the tissues and can impair testicular function.

Do I think an infrared lamp is really necessary? No.
But HEAT helps. If you're at home, wrap a blanket around your legs, all day. For the penis to stay warm and dilate the vessels. So the nutrients reach the injury better. If you're on the street, you can wear extra shorts under your pants. To stay warmer during the day, too.

And how much touching is bad? Should I keep it in place all the time somehow? I haven't really fondled with it (excluding gently this morning), not even in the shower.

When I say don't touch it, I mean just touch carefully to shower and shake a little when you pee. Nothing more.

Oh and by the way, the penis was not hard for like 20 minutes this morning, but rather soft as it had some blood in it.

20 minutes when you were still lying down? The muscle tension in the muscles that I mentioned above increases when you're standing. It is normal to feel some relief when you are sitting and lying down. You will learn all this in the links that I sent you

Sensations were definitely there, I quite gently did examine it when it was in this soft state with my hands.

Ok, great

I ordered this a few days back: https://store.cure-erectile-dysfunction.org/products/sr-cream/ , it should arrive in like 3-4 weeks. Do you think I should use it then?

Yes, it's a cool cream. If you still have some symptoms in 4 weeks, you can put a little on the penis and pelvic floor. For now, just worry about having an extraordinarily healthy diet. To have all the nutrients that tissues need to improve. And sleep a lot!

Even before I had the masturbation session I had quite recently (probably like three weeks back or so) had a minor PE injury which was followed by some reductions in shaft sensation. Everything felt sensitive while erect though. Should've just kept my damn hands off, so I wouldn't be in this mess.

You have to treat you penis with more affection, TKL... Both when you masturbate and when you're doing PE.
And, if you watch, stop watching porn! You will learn that in the links too

 

[TKL_]

20 minutes when you were still lying down?

Yes when lying down, it wasn't soft when I woke up, but became soft for a while when I continued lying down in the bed. It actually did this weird thing where it could retract very fast to this retracted state it's in and come out again.

And, if you watch, stop watching porn!

Yes, I've wanted to do that for years, I guess this offers a chance for a porn detox. Talk about silver linings.

 

[Romero MD]

Yes when lying down, it wasn't soft when I woke up, but became soft for a while when I continued lying down in the bed. It actually did this weird thing where it could retract very fast to this retracted state it's in and come out again.

Very common. This is very common in injuries of the Ischiocavernosus muscle. If it makes you feel more peaceful and understood, I had it all too...

Yes, I've wanted to do that for years, I guess this offers a chance for a porn detox. Talk about silver linings.

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[ho1985]

@Romero MD
I read your thread, I don't have much time to put details, but diagnosing LF by anyway as a nerve damage is totally, I've met hundreds of HF&LF this what I can conclude from what I've been through till now
-one of the common causes of BOTH HF & LF is a reaction happened as a result after taking Some medications and some even got it because of weed or marijuana, some have it after wake up without any previous sex activity at all.
- both LF & HF have recovered cases including my experience with full erection enable to keep erection standing up, and recover controlling the muscle.
from the previous points and more not mentioned this cant be related to a nerve damage.

I don't know if you have read the HF unraveled book , if you didn't have a look.
also check this article
https://www.researchgate.net/public...flaccid_syndrome_initial_report_of_four_cases

 

[HFrecovering]

@Romero MD
I read your thread, I don't have much time to put details, but diagnosing LF by anyway as a nerve damage is totally, I've met hundreds of HF&LF this what I can conclude from what I've been through till now
-one of the common causes of BOTH HF & LF is a reaction happened as a result after taking Some medications and some even got it because of weed or marijuana, some have it after wake up without any previous sex activity at all.
- both LF & HF have recovered cases including my experience with full erection enable to keep erection standing up, and recover controlling the muscle.
from the previous points and more not mentioned this cant be related to a nerve damage.

I don't know if you have read the HF unraveled book , if you didn't have a look.
also check this article
https://www.researchgate.net/public...flaccid_syndrome_initial_report_of_four_cases

Happy for you man.

How did you recover from LF?

 

[Romero MD]

Hi Ho1985! I'm glad you showed up! I've been waiting for you...


I liked your discussion topics. I have read "HF Unraveled" twice (in the last 3 months) and I have read the article you sent me (about 2 months ago and I read it again now). In addition, I have read all 5-6 scientific articles about Hard Flaccid, I have read your entire thread and I have read almost all the threads about Hard Flaccid on PEGym and on the site that is similar to PEGym. Not to mention all the research that gave rise to the first post on this thread. As you can imagine, it was by no means small.

I read your thread, I don't have much time to put details, but diagnosing LF by anyway as a nerve damage is totally, I've met hundreds of HF&LF this what I can conclude from what I've been through till now
-one of the common causes of BOTH HF & LF is a reaction happened as a result after taking Some medications and some even got it because of weed or marijuana, some have it after wake up without any previous sex activity at all.

Yes, I know. If you read my post, on the causes, I wrote the drugs that cause Long Flaccid.
The drugs that cause Hard Flaccid are NOT the same drugs that cause Long Flaccid.

1 - Cannabis (marijuana, weed, etc.) is a drug that directly decreases the relaxation of the smooth muscle of the penis. It directly causes muscle contracture. Furthermore, in low doses, cannabis increases Sympathetic stimulation and decreases parasympathetic stimulation. Additionally, Cannabis is a fat-soluble drug, remaining in the body for several days. So, you don't need to practice PE or have sex to get Hard Flaccid. You just have to masturbate or have sex (or just make too many Kegels) during the days after you have smoked Cannabis, to create an explosive combination for the development of Hard Flaccid.

I'm glad you mentioned “HF Unraveled”. Which says, on page 50:
“We encounter a significant number of men whose HF onset coincided with some form of prescription or recreational drug use. In most of these cases, further investigation will reveal the additional presence of one or more of the more common physical methods of onset. A man may initially claim that he suddenly developed HF after beginning or ceasing the use of some prescription medication or after taking part in recreational drug use, but he will fail to mention that he also engaged in some other activity which may have contributed to it. This can be anything from excessive masturbation or sex, to hitting the weights a bit too hard at the gym that particular day. Additionally, we very often find that these men also exhibit many other characteristics of CPPS, and had been experiencing them for considerable time before HF, and very often, totally unaware of what they were.

However, there are cases where a man will develop HF seemingly out of nowhere, with the only significant change in his life involving a drug or some other substance. In these cases, we consistently see a very clear historical presence of emotional anxiety or stress, especially obvious when the case involves some kind of antidepressant or other psychotropic substance. This correlation simply cannot be coincidence. I attribute these cases largely to the implications of emotional stress on the physical body, which can be profound. Remember, again, that a syndrome always has a cause — and that cause can very well be mental, and not physical.” in HF Unraveled

2 - Ciprofloxacin and Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar) are drugs that directly cause nerve damage (including in the pudendal nerve). It has been scientifically proven, by electromyography, that they directly cause peripheral neuropathy. These are the drugs that caused the drug-induced Long Flaccid cases (Disclaimer: From the cases that I read. There may be more drugs associated... I'm still trying to research more cases... Ho, if you know other drugs associated, please tell me. Showing me where it is written.) Ciprofloxacin and Finasteride are drugs that directly cause nerve damage and cause exactly all the same symptoms as trauma-induced Long Flaccid (sex, masturbation, PE). I will repeat: Exactly all the same symptoms.

"Romero, but Finasteride also causes Hard Flaccid..." - Yes, I know. Because, in addition to the side effect of peripheral neuropathy, Finasteride can also cause side effects in muscles (tics, tremors, contractures, spasms, muscle tension, muscle stiffness and fasciculations). Which do just the opposite - Hard Flaccid.
- Post-finasteride syndrome: An emerging clinical problem - May 2020 review, with 122 references
- Association Between Peripheral Neuropathy and Exposure to Oral Fluoroquinolone - April 2019

And also a small reference from the article you sent:
“Although the exact mechanisms resulting in HF are not clear, traumatic events such as rough masturbation or jelqing may be responsible for the onset of the symptoms. The location and the extension of this traumatic injury may affect the pudendal nerve and artery, which may deteriorate pelvic floor muscle and erectile functions. In addition, HF patients commonly report symptoms similar to chronic pelvic pain syndrome [3] or pelvic floor tightness [2, 4]. All these symptoms may result in psychological problems, which further affect the libido, erectile function, and general well-being of the patients. Similar to our cases, patients in the internet forums report that imaging modalities including penile Doppler ultrasound and MRI were inconclusive.
Considering those patient reports, we hypothesize that these penile sensation changes and erection complaints may be the result of a (minor) trauma to the nerves passing adjacent to the corpus spongiosum in radix penis, resulting in inflammation in these nerves. Such a neuropathy may be responsible in sensation changes (coldness, numbness in the glans), erectile problems (especially softening in the glans penis), and painful erections/ejaculations [5, 6] (Fig. 1). We also believe that urinary symptoms of the HF patients may be explained by pelvic floor muscle and external urethral sphincter dysfunction due to the pudendal nerve injury induced by traumatic sexual event [7].”

(Warning:… which does NOT mean that I agree with the article... Hard flaccid is NOT a nerve damage.)

Therefore, all this argument not only does NOT prove that I am wrong, but it is an argument that proves correlation and causation, in my favor. It proves that I am right.

- both LF & HF have recovered cases including my experience with full erection enable to keep erection standing up, and recover controlling the muscle.

You recovered because nerve damage is not irreversible. It is not incurable. It just takes much longer to recover, because nerves are structures that recover much more slowly than muscles. In addition, nerve damage is not always total. There are various degrees of nerve damage, with progressive dysfunction. The lighter grades are easier to treat than the more severe ones.

Besides, from what I read in your thread, you had your penis in Long Flaccid, without any improvement, for 5 years, right?... Hard Flaccid patients get better (become asymptomatic) in seconds-minutes, depending on their position. Have you ever been totally symptom-free for seconds-minutes, depending on your body position?... No, right?... From what you describe in your thread it seems to me that you don't.

Therefore, your two arguments do NOT prove that I am wrong. They prove that I am right.

-----------------------------------------------

Ho, please, read my post again. I explained and substantiated 18 symptoms. Where are your counter-arguments and explanations for all 18 symptoms?...
I gave you 18 arguments about why this is a nerve dysfunction. With these 2, we count 20 arguments. Explained and substantiated. Therefore...

from the previous points and more not mentioned this cant be related to a nerve damage.

... I will be waiting for your next points

Ho, please re-read my post carefully. I was careful to explain, in detail, why some symptoms are similar between both. Hard Flaccid and Long Flaccid are similar in many ways, but very different in others. It is impossible that they have the same cause. And it's impossible to happen at the same time. I also explained this in the post.

I am not saying that I am 100% correct... I want you to find the flaws and prove where I am wrong. All of you. Administrators, Moderators, all 180,000 members. I want you to find the flaws, in these 20 arguments. I want you to say and prove where I'm wrong.

I really liked your reply, Ho. You are the reason why I started this thread.
And I am very happy that you have recovered! For 1584 posts, I have waited for your post, where you would say that you were finally healed.

Please, don't stay so long without showing up again. I want more arguments...
Best wishes

 

[boomer12]

Hi PEGym I don't have Long Flaccid. I just decided to study this disease. And try to help you find a cure.

Warning: This text is about Long Flaccid! This text is NOT about Hard Flaccid! Hard Flaccid sufferers, this text is NOT for you!


Long, Larger, Overextended Flaccid

Most likely cause: Stretch-Induced Pudendal Nerve Neuropathy (Neurapraxia)

Introduction:
1 - Parasympathetic Nervous System - triggers Erection

2 - Sympathetic Nervous System - triggers Ejaculation. And also inhibits Erection. That is why, when we are stressed and anxious ( + Sympathetic, - Parasympathetic), we have Erectile Dysfunction and Premature Ejaculation.

3 - The Pudendal Nerve has 3 types of nerve fibers:
- Sensitive (Afferent) - transport skin sensations from the penis to the brain
- Motor (Efferent) - transport the motor stimulus (from the brain) to the IC muscles, BC muscle and External Sphincter muscle of Urethra.
- Sympathetic - trigger Ejaculation

4 - The Pudendal Nerve does NOT carry the Parasympathetic stimulus (erection) to the penis. The Parasympathetic stimulus is carried by a network of small nervous filaments (from the Sacral Plexus/Pelvic Splanchnic Nerves), which surround the Pudendal Arteries. Which irrigate the Corpora Cavernosa, allowing Erection.

5 - The Hard Flaccid (contracture of the penile smooth muscle inside the Corpora Cavernosa) is caused by the contraction/pathological contracture/protective contracture of the IC muscle.

6 - If the Long Flaccid has the opposite appearance (long and soft), then it is impossible that it is caused by a tense pelvic floor (tension in the IC muscle). It is just the opposite. There is an excessive relaxation of the IC muscle and, consequently, a hyper-relaxation of the penile smooth muscle, consequently, originating the Long Flaccid - an elongated, loose, soft, larger, spongy, dis-attached, hanging, rubbery jellied, floppy penis.


Symptoms and Explanations:
1 - Muscular weakness (Paresis). Inability to perform Kegels. Very weak kegels. (Examples: “I can't flex/clench the penis, or move it up and down easily like before by kegel move, I can't make it "Jump" anymore, flaccid or erect, it doesn't react or react weakly when I flex BC muscle. I also cannot pump blood into my penis like i used to, no matter how hard I try. Only my PC muscle moves during kegel. I can't contract my BC at all, it seems dead. It is more difficult to stop urinating. I seem to be only able to clench and move the PC muscles around the anus but the ones you use to hold an erection I can't. When I ejaculate, I feel my anus contract instead of my BC/penis muscle. I have a total lack of BC muscle control AND INSTEAD I have this CONSTANT sense of anal muscle control/feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, over-exaggerated.”)

- This symptom is caused by a decrease in the Motor (Efferent) nervous stimulus (from the brain to the IC and BC muscles), carried by the Pudendal Nerve.
- In Hard Flaccid, this symptom is explained by the compression of the Pudendal Nerve and because the muscles are already contracted (Kegel). It is difficult to contract a muscle that is already contracted.
- In Long Flaccid this symptom is explained by dysfunction/direct damage/neurapraxia of the Pudendal Nerve. A nerve damage has occurred in the nerves that carry the Motor nervous stimulus.

https://www.pegym.com/forums/member...tional-picture103810-bulbospongiosus-male.jpg
View attachment 103812

- Why can patients do Kegels (and feel the contraction with manual palpation of Zone 1) in the posterior area of ​​the pelvic floor (Back Kegel, Levator Ani muscle, PC muscle) but can't do Kegels (nor feel the contraction with manual palpation of Zone 2 and 3) in the anterior area of ​​the pelvic floor (Front Kegel, BC and IC muscles)? Because the Motor (Efferent) stimulus for the Levator Ani muscle (“PC muscle”) is NOT performed by the Pudendal Nerve. The Sacral Plexus (which originates the Pudendal Nerve) originates the collateral nerve for the Levator Ani muscle - Levator Ani Nerve - before originating the Pudendal Nerve (which innervates the remaining pelvic floor muscles). Muscle dysfunction will only occur in muscles innervated by the Pudendal Nerve. What you feel in zone 1 is not the BC muscle. It is the PC muscle and the External Anal Sphincter muscle.

- In addition, most of the Motor (Efferent) stimulus for the External Anal Sphincter muscle is NOT performed by the Pudendal Nerve. Once again, the Sacral Plexus originates another collateral nerve (Perineal Branch of 4th sacral Nerve) that innervates the External Anal Sphincter muscle.
(Note: The External Anal Sphincter muscle is also innervated by the Inferior Anal Nerve (branch of the Pudendal Nerve), BUT it is NOT its main nerve (Levator Ani Nerve). In addition, sometimes (anatomical variation), the Inferior Anal Nerve is NOT a branch of the Pudendal Nerve. Sometimes it also originates directly from the Sacral Plexus.)
- The above also explains why these patients have neither constipation nor fecal incontinence (symptoms related to passing stools). Because the External Anal Sphincter muscle and the Levator Ani muscle (“CP”) continue to be fully functional.

2 - Erectile Dysfunction (Ex:“I can't keep my erection while standing up. I can’t maintain the erection without continuous manual stimulation.”)
- Erectile Dysfunction in Hard Flaccid is caused by the inability to relax the penile smooth muscle, and due to the contracture of the IC and BC muscle. Erectile dysfunction in Long Flaccid is due to dysfunctional innervation (lack of innervation) of the IC and BC muscles.

- However, patients are able to have partial erections. Why? As stated above, the Parasympathetic innervation (Erection) of the penis does NOT depend on the Pudendal Nerve. The Parasympathetic stimulus is carried by a network of small nervous filaments (from the Sacral Plexus/Pelvic Splanchnic Nerves), which join and surround the Pudendal Arteries. Which irrigate the corpora cavernosa, allowing Erection. That is why a Pudendal Nerve injury does NOT completely affects erectile capacity. It only affects the contraction of the IC and BC muscles, which are auxiliaries, stabilizers and erection elevators.
- In most patients, Viagra does not work. Because this is a muscle/nervous problem. It is not a problem related to blood vessels.

3 - Nocturnal Priapism (Ex:“Congested nocturnal erections, with strange shape and uninterrupted, that last for hours.”)
- Let's talk a little about the sleep cycle. Especially the famous REM Sleep. During REM sleep there is a change in the brain systems that are activated - there is a greater cerebral Parasympathetic stimulation (which causes nocturnal erections) and less Sympathetic stimulation. After the end of REM sleep, the brain returns to dominant Sympathetic stimulation. However, as the Pudendal Nerve is damaged and the Sympathetic nervous stimulus to the penis is decreased, the erection does NOT disappear. Therefore, the nocturnal erection is maintained.
- "Why is the shape of the erection strange?" Because the IC and BC muscles are not working properly (decreased Motor nerve stimulation). The penis is not stabilized by the accessory muscles of the erection. Its shape becomes strange.

4 - Morning Priapism (Ex:“I have a higher number of morning erections after the injury.”)
- Because as sleep progresses, REM sleep periods become more frequent. Therefore, there is a greater hyperactivation of the Parasympathetic Nervous System near the time of waking up.

5 - Decreased skin sensitivity/pleasure in the penis. Hypoesthesia. Numbness (Ex:"Low sensitivity/numbness. I lost the feeling of pleasure of the outer skin of the shaft. It's like having 50x condoms on. Penis feels almost like rubber, even less sensitive than the skin on the arm. I can't feel the oral sex. I can’t feel if I have erection or not. I have difficulty getting and maintaining erections. I've lost sensitivity. It's supposed to hurt to bend your erect dick, but during my worst long flaccid I could move my erect dick around easily with no pain. I don't feel when I have erection that my penis is erected.”)

- This symptom is explained by the decrease in Sensitive (Afferent) nervous stimulus (from the penis to the brain) through the Dorsal Nerve of the Penis (final branch of the Pudendal Nerve).
- In Hard Flaccid, this symptom is caused by compression of the Pudendal Nerve through the muscular contracture that exists in the pelvic floor.
- In Long Flaccid, this symptom is caused by nervous dysfunction of the sensitive fibers of the Pudendal Nerve.

6 - Long/Larger/Overextended Flaccid (Ex:“The penis becomes 3-4 times larger when Flaccid. Thicker and longer. The penis become elongated, bigger, loose, soft, larger, squishy, ​​spongy, dis-attached, hanging. It's easy to push it down while erect (no resistance), easy to bend it down. Penis feels disconnected from the body, too heavy while erect hanging. Like nothing supporting it. Erection angle pointing downwards while erect. The penis become rubbery jellied, floppy like water balloon all the time. Not hard flaccid at all. The normal of my flaccid state was shrinked all the time (Grower), now it's not.”)

- In medicine, this condition is called Flaccid Paralysis and reduced muscle tone.
- As explained above, Hard Flaccid (contracture of the penile smooth muscle within the corpora cavernosa) is caused by contraction/pathological contracture/protective contracture of the IC muscle.
- If the Long Flaccid has the opposite appearance (long and soft), then it is impossible that it is caused by a tense pelvic floor (tense IC muscle). It is just the opposite. There is an excessive relaxation of the IC and BC muscles (due to the decrease in Motor stimulation for these muscles) and, consequently, a hyper-relaxation of the penile smooth muscle, causing the Long Flaccid - completely soft penis.

- The entire (anterior) pelvic floor is hyper-relaxed. Because it is the pudendal nerve that carries the Motor (Efferent) stimulus to all muscles.
- In addition, the hyper-relaxation of these muscles also causes a lack of support and stabilization of the erect penis.
- Erections seem disconnected from the base of the penis because the IC muscle has lost its ability to contract. It has NO muscle tone.

7 - Delayed ejaculation. Difficulty in ejaculation/orgasm (Ex: “Achieving an orgasm is possible, but difficult and requires abnormally heavy stimulation.”)
- Symptom explained not only by decreased skin sensitivity, but also by the hypofunction of Sympathetic fibers (ejaculation) through the Pudendal Nerve. If Sympathetic nerve stimulation is decreased, it will take longer to ejaculate.

8 - Erection does not go down after ejaculation (Ex:“My erections take much longer to subside and go back to the flaccid state. My penis stays semi erect for a long time before going back flaccid. One of my issues is no refractory period. It doesn't go down after ejaculation like it used to always go down afterwards. Eventually, it does, but it's like I can ejaculate over and over again without losing erection. Penis would not go down after ejaculation: I did go through a period where after having an erection and ejaculating, my penis would get EXTREMELY hard that it was painful. It took hours for it to go down.”)

- Because it is the Sympathetic, post-orgasmic, stimulation that will compress the penile smooth muscle, causing the penis to become flaccid. If there is NO Sympathetic nerve stimulation, the penis remains erect for longer than usual. Just like what happens during sleep.

9 - Urinary problems. Urinary retention. Weak urine stream (Ex:“My urine stream is weak. I can't push urine out like before. Peeing also became very weird. My pee stream is weak and sometimes shoots in different directions. I can't empty the bladder and can't squeeze or push all urine out.”)

- A little more information: Our bladder is innervated by the Sympathetic and Parasympathetic Nervous System. Which does NOT occur through the Pudendal Nerve. The Sympathetic system dilates the smooth muscle of the bladder wall (for it to fill), promoting urinary retention. The Parasympathetic system contracts the smooth muscle of the bladder wall (for it to empty), promoting urination. So the Parasympathetic is activated when we urinate. And these systems are involuntary. We cannot control them with our will.

- However, the External Sphincter muscle of the urethra (at the exit of the bladder) and the BC muscle are muscles that we can control. Which we can open and close in order to increase or decrease the flow of urine. And our ability to control them comes from their Motor (Efferent) innervation. Which is carried through the Pudendal Nerve.
- Therefore, if the Motor stimulus for the External Sphincter muscle of the Urethra and for the BC muscle is decreased, we are unable to make the urinary stream stronger.

10 - Absent Bladder Sensation (Ex:“Now I can hold it even 3-4 hours without urgent feeling. I cannot feel my bladder getting full like I used to and when emptying my bladder I can't control the stream. When I try to stop it, I feel that the muscles are very weak and when I push, the urine stream doesn’t get stronger which is definitely not normal to me.”)
- Because the Sensitive (Afferent) stimulus (between the bladder and the brain), is also decreased. What nerve carries this Sensitive message? The Pudendal Nerve.

- The Pudendal Nerve carries pressure sensitive information (pressure created by the weight of urine) in the External Sphincter Muscle of the Urethra. The weight of the urine creates pressure on this muscle, which is then sent to the brain (by the Pudendal Nerve) and which tells us that the bladder is full.
- Why DON'T patients have urinary incontinence? Because (1) Sympathetic and Parasympathetic stimulation for the entire bladder, Internal Urethral Sphincter and External Urethral Sphincter does NOT depend on the Pudendal Nerve. And because (2) the External Sphincter of the Urethra is also composed of many muscle fibers of the Levator Ani Muscle, whose innervation also does NOT depend on the Pudendal Nerve (but rather on the Levator Ani Nerve).

11 - Weak ejaculation (Ex: “Ejaculation does not shoot. Ejaculation dribble.”)
- This symptom is explained by the decrease in the Motor (Efferent) stimulus for the BC muscle, NOT allowing greater jet propulsion. (Less Kegel contraction capacity)

- In addition, during orgasm, Motor nerve stimulation to the External Sphincter muscle of the Urethra closes this sphincter. It is an automatic reflex that prevents Retrograde Ejaculation (to the bladder). If there is NO motor stimulus, the percentage of retrograde ejaculation increases. So, probably, part of your sperm is traveling to the bladder.

12 - Loss of the Bulbocavernosus Reflex
- If there is NO Sensitive stimulus (Afferent) or Motor stimulus (Efferent), there will be NO Bulbocavernosus Reflex.

13 - Most prominent penis veins
- Due to circulatory dysfunction, caused by muscle and nervous dysfunction.

14 - Low Libido
- Lack of daily contractions and pleasurable sensations on the pelvic floor and penis.
- Anxiety/stress due to the disease (Long Flaccid).

15 - The penis does not shrink with stress, nor with cold
- Anxiety, stress and cold (Sympathetic nerve stimulation) shrink everyone's penis. Why doesn't Long Flaccid get back to normal with stress, anxiety or cold? Because the Sympathetic nervous stimulus is NOT reaching the penis.

16 - Pain in the pelvic floor
- It's a rare symptom.
- Most likely these patients have some degree of Pudendal Neuralgia/Pudendal Nerve Entrapment/Alcock Canal Syndrome.

17 - Tingling, vibration, tremors, itching, sensation of electric shock or needles on the pelvic floor and at the base of the penis
- Typical symptoms of nerve dysfunction.

18 - Sudden onset of the disease ("overnight") and with little or no improvement over months or years
- Typical temporal evolution of nerve injuries.
- The nerves take months/years to heal.


Causes of Long Flaccid:
- Aggressive masturbation - nerve stretching
- Prone Masturbation - nerve stretching
- Extreme penile stretches - nerve stretching
- Erect/Extreme Jelqing - nerve stretching
- Penis pumps with high pressure - nerve stretching
- After taking the antibiotic Ciprofloxacin (WorkToResolve and closed278) - Fluoroquinolone-induced Pudendal Neuropathy
- Overtraining Reverse Kegels, in and out of sex (Jay1983) - Hi Jay! Are you sure you don't remember any traumatic event that could cause nerve stretching?... I think Reverse Kegels are not intense enough to cause Neurapraxia...
- After taking the drug Finasteride (nasa01) - Finasteride-induced Pudendal Neuropathy (Post-Finasteride Syndrome)


Diagnostic Tests:
- Electromyography (Which I would like all of you to do, and report the result, so that we can confirm the diagnosis)


Treatment of Long Flaccid:
- Extraordinary healthy eating - lots of proteins, fruits and vegetables.
- Important supplements: B Complex vitamins, Alpha Lipioc Acid (ALA), Benfothiamine and Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALC)
- Other supplements: Ginkgo Biloba, Ginseng, L-Arginine, Fish Oils, BioPQQ, Vitamins C, D and E, Zinc, Lion’s Mane Mushroom, Curcumin, N-acetylcysteine (NAC)
- Have a healthy body weight (BMI between 19 and 25)
- Sleep 8 hours a day.
- Do not smoke! Do not drink alcohol! - both cause nerve damage
- KEGELS - Jay1983 was the pioneer of this approach. And I think it makes a lot of sense. Thanks Jay! How do we heal nerve injuries (spine, arms, legs, etc)? How do we sometimes get paraplegics patients (or patients who have had a stroke) to walk again? We offer nerve stimulation. Through physical therapy that tries to move the muscles innervated by that nerve. In this case, being the pelvic floor, what we want is Kegels. Kegels is the contraction of the muscles innervated by the Pudendal Nerve. The best way to rehabilitate a nerve that has been injured is to stimulate it, trying to move the muscles that the nerve innervates. With physical therapy to the legs, in the case of a paraplegic. With physical therapy to the pelvic floor (Kegels and Reverse Kegels) in the case of a Long Flaccid.
- Reverse Kegels (to balance the effect of Kegels). You can even do them at the same time: K, RK, K, RK, K, RK, K, RK ...
- Soft massages, all over the pelvic floor: muscles, scrotum, penis, everything. To stimulate each sensitive and motor nervous branch of the pudendal nerve.
- Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS)
- Pulsed radiofrequency
- Thermal therapy, with hot-cold variation. (For example: alternate a hot rice sock with an ice pack). To stimulate the skin sensation.
- Masturbation. 1 day ON, 1 day OFF. 15 min of Edging, with Ejaculation at the end. - To stimulate all types of sensations of the Pudendal Nerve. VERY, VERY LIGHT! It’s not supposed to worsen the injury, by stretching the nerve further! And you are not supposed to masturbate 10 times a day! Remember that it was extreme masturbation that caused the injury in many of you! And NO PORN! Pornography desensitizes your penis even more.
- Always place a pillow under your buttocks when sitting. A hard surface impairs healing.
- Drugs: there are no drugs to accelerate nerve healing... (There is a drug that is having some positive results in recent studies in patients with spinal cord injury. But these are still very preliminary conclusions.)
- Sports/Physical activity/Physical therapy/Exercise. Which one? It doesn't matter... Jogging, swimming, calisthenics, yoga... Anything you like. Just move. You have nerves to heal. You have to be the healthiest person (physically and mentally) you have ever imagined.

Warning: If you experience increased pain, intense sensation of electric shock, "needles", or increased numbness, in any of the exercises, it is because you are doing the exercise too intense, which can impair healing. If this happens, you have to decrease the intensity.

Warning 2: If you have an acute (recent) injury, do NOT masturbate. It is just to REST completely. Acute (recent) injuries, which have this type of symptoms, is to give the penis absolute rest for at least 1 month.


Conclusion:
- Hard Flaccid is a muscle injury that contracts the pelvic floor. The pathological contracture compresses nerves/arteries and contracts the penile smooth muscle.
- Long Flaccid is a nerve injury, which relaxes the entire pelvic floor. And causes the dysfunction of everything that is innervated by the Pudendal Nerve.

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Disclaimer:
On PEGym, my thoughts, impressions, ideas, opinions and advice are NOT your definitive diagnosis.
You should always seek a complete medical examination, medical tests and other opinions, with other qualified health professionals and medical doctors outside the online world.

It doesnt matter if its a nerve injury ( unlikely ) or not , if your a real doctor and not a troll just scrolling through the web then why dont you go and publish your so called " studies " on male pelvic health , cpps , LF , hf etc ..why dont you try to help those people that obviouslly fell into porn addiction leading them into thinking porn is the ultimate truth and and big d*cks is a must to get a validation from a girl , its obviouslly not .

A real doctor ..like a real real medical nuro - surgeon / nuro urologist will never use words like " Lamfo " or " lol " .. or what ever .. those guys are a very smart individuals they dont time for internet mambo jambo adventures in forums like pegym , just saying .. if your realy care about your " patients" go publish the study ..help them .

In regard to nerve injury by streching as you stated - to strech a nerve to the point of its tear has to be very painfull i assume and i heard alot of people with LF had that all of a sudden after jelq season or mustrubation with out any pain ..its just went flaccid and long ...so maybe it is nerve relates maybe its muscle - nerve related ... maybe ita not at all ..who knows .

Also my urologist told me that and i qute - " if you have and erection then what ever your problem is ...its not that serious "

Good day , stay in touch .

 

[Mike_b]

Like my buddy said " if you like a girl your dick will stand up for her." I don't think right now is the time to question anyone's credibility. Dr Romero just so happens to be a doctor who has the unluck of going thru the disease itself. So what? Doctors are human being s too, they make mistakes. At least he's not a hack who doesn't give a crap. My dad's doctor won't even perform a lime test disease blood test or neither a testosterone check. At least Romero agrees to answer our questions and try to help us. Nuff said. Remember he's not a urologist.

 

[HansTwilight]

It doesnt matter if its a nerve injury ( unlikely ) or not , if your a real doctor and not a troll just scrolling through the web then why dont you go and publish your so called " studies " on male pelvic health , cpps , LF , hf etc ..why dont you try to help those people that obviouslly fell into porn addiction leading them into thinking porn is the ultimate truth and and big d*cks is a must to get a validation from a girl , its obviouslly not .

A real doctor ..like a real real medical nuro - surgeon / nuro urologist will never use words like " Lamfo " or " lol " .. or what ever .. those guys are a very smart individuals they dont time for internet mambo jambo adventures in forums like pegym , just saying .. if your realy care about your " patients" go publish the study ..help them .

In regard to nerve injury by streching as you stated - to strech a nerve to the point of its tear has to be very painfull i assume and i heard alot of people with LF had that all of a sudden after jelq season or mustrubation with out any pain ..its just went flaccid and long ...so maybe it is nerve relates maybe its muscle - nerve related ... maybe ita not at all ..who knows .

Also my urologist told me that and i qute - " if you have and erection then what ever your problem is ...its not that serious "

Good day , stay in touch .

Keep the discussion civil please. :focus:

 

[Jay1983]

Howdy y'all.

impride8lr:

 

[watersnake]

Howdy y'all.

impride8lr:

No pain no gain. Push hard, PE.