Is the West in decline

[CUSP82]

Then get along without us and see how that works for you.

 

[4Samson]

Then get along without us and see how that works for you.

Yeah lets see how it works for both sides, lose/lose, that is what makes it so retarded.

 

[CUSP82]

We shall see won't we?

 

[4Samson]

We shall see won't we?

Yup. Serious question, in general, do you think that USA alienating/betraying/backstabbing/(or whatever you want to call it) all of their allies/partners is not going to have any negative consequences for USA in either the short term or long term? Details do not even matter, just as a general concept.

 

[CUSP82]

Backstabbing? How fair is it that when we send a car to Europe we pay a 10% tariff yet when they send a car here we charge them 2.5%.

 

[4Samson]

The back stabbing was more in reference to Ukraine, which all your other allies (former allies?) including Canada and Europe still stand with. Although threatening to annex Canada and attempting to crush our economy (your closest/oldest ally who BENEFITS you) could be considered back stabbing as well.

As for details of other trade deals or trade balances with other countries, my previous comments are mostly specifically for Canada/USA where Canada buys more products from USA than Americans buy from Canada. And that is despite our much lower population, we still buy more of your products total. The trade balance/situation between our 2 countries is fair and beneficial for both sides. Starting a trade war and 25% tariffs against Canada makes no sense for USA and is a negative because we will not buy your products anymore. I don't think it will collapse the USA but it is unbiasedly negative for both USA and Canada, which is why it is such a retarded decision. It makes me wonder more in general the thought and research (if any) Trump actually puts into his decisions.

Back to the auto tariffs, what do you think is going to make it harder to compete? That 10% tariffs on the car when it reaches Europe or the 25% the North American auto manufacturers will now have to pay every time the material, parts, vehicle crosses the border? Our auto industries work together to be able to compete globally and vehicles cross back and forth across the border multiple times during production. 25% fee everytime. The assembly lines will all shut down on both sides of the border in a week because the plant will be waiting for what it needs from the other plant and suppliers to do it's part. The entire industry will be brutally punished. Look it up, a full size American brand SUV/truck will now cost around $8000-10000+ more IN THE USA. Complain about 10% auto tariffs in Europe if you want, you know who had 0% auto tariffs for USA? Yeah Canada obviously.... we also happen to buy more cars per capita than basically any other country on earth and again buy so much of your products in this industry as well. Btw do you know who is one of the only countries who buys more American made vehicles than Canada does? Mexico at #1 and Trump started a 25% tariff war there to. Great way to increase sales by greatly increasing the cost of your own product vs the global competition? Countries like Mexico and Canada are not going to add tariffs to other automobiles just because USA made prices for their vehicles 25% more now. Korean car 0% tariff, USA car 25% price increase good luck competing. Why do that to yourself? It is not our countries doing this, it is Trump.

It makes no sense and is retarded. The trading relationship between Canada and USA is a benefit to USA (and Canada). Ending something with your closest partner that benefits both of you is retarded. Sorry for my overuse of that word, every time I think of Trump's decision and a descriptive word for it, "retarded" seems to jump into my head.

 

[CUSP82]

Tell ya what; we'll just look at Ukraine, your first point. Do you think the war is winnable? You think a country with one tenth the population compared to Russia can win? Did you forget that Russia has the greatest number of nukes on the planet? You don't think if Putin got pissed enough he would use small tactical nukes? And if he did what do you think the West would do? Start WW3 AND END LIFE AS WE KNOW IT? Time to get the best peace deal you can get and stop the killing.
Has Canada even given remotely what we have given to the war effort? Last I heard Canada was still behind in NATO payments that they agreed to pay.

 

[4Samson]

Tell ya what; we'll just look at Ukraine, your first point. Do you think the war is winnable? You think a country with one tenth the population compared to Russia can win? Did you forget that Russia has the greatest number of nukes on the planet? You don't think if Putin got pissed enough he would use small tactical nukes? And if he did what do you think the West would do? Start WW3 AND END LIFE AS WE KNOW IT? Time to get the best peace deal you can get and stop the killing.
Has Canada even given remotely what we have given to the war effort? Last I heard Canada was still behind in NATO payments that they agreed to pay.

I have purposely avoided clicking on that thread because I do not want to become overly political on this site but I do have very strong opinions on that as well and can answer your question that directly relates to my country. Yes from a percentage of GDP or as a per capita basis, Canada and other countries have given comparably or even more to the war effort. NATO payments? Those words worry me that you and other Americans are really just basing your information and opinions on what comes out of Trump's mouth. I am sure we are paying any "bills" we have. If you are referencing the agreement to spend a minimum amount of GDP on our own military then I do agree Canada and all other allies should meet those terms (most already do). Canada's main issue getting there right now is we have had a liberal government federally for awhile now. Unrelated to Trump and the rest of the world, Trudeau was already on his way out and that is due for change.

Unrelated to my country, I believe that with proper support the Ukrainian army can make it too costly for Russia to move forward and economic sanctions would eventually lead to a mutually beneficial peace deal that included security guarantees for Ukraine so that they can continue to exist. This was working and would have worked if the west stood together as allies without blinking.

If you are worried about ww3 than the only thing we can really do is look to the past and learn from mistakes/experience on how to avoid a world war.

“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war.' - Neville Chamberlain​

Another one from him prior to ww2:

"We seem to be very near the bleak choice between War and Shame. My feeling is that we shall choose Shame, and then have War thrown in a little later on even more adverse terms than at present."

 

[CUSP82]

Russians don't lose wars. Ask the Germans. Sacrificing men mean nothing to them; only victory. And there you have the problem; they will not quit.
As for the decline of the West; oh we had a bad government so we couldn't uphold what we agreed to. That has been said or implied by most of the European governments. I call that an excuse. So if Russia were to turn on the West what do we say? Oh we could have kicked your butt but we had a bad government who didn't care about defense?

 

[4Samson]

Russians don't lose wars. Ask the Germans. Sacrificing men mean nothing to them; only victory. And there you have the problem; they will not quit.
As for the decline of the West; oh we had a bad government so we couldn't uphold what we agreed to. That has been said or implied by most of the European governments. I call that an excuse. So if Russia were to turn on the West what do we say? Oh we could have kicked your butt but we had a bad government who didn't care about defense?

With technology and weapons today, a defending side can actually obtain a 10 to 1 kill ratio or close to it so Russia's population advantage would not mean victory if Ukraine was always given everything it needs. I also did not say lose, I said lead to a mutually beneficial peace deal that allows Ukraine to continue to exist (indefinitely).

The top 12 or so spenders in NATO by % of GDP all meet the 2%+ requirement. When you count military spending by capita, 7 of the top 12 spenders in NATO do not meet the 2% of GDP requirement. Canada is on that list of top military spending by capita. We are also #6 in total spending. It is not black and white but the size of the countries population does have an affect here. For us we have a low population and high GDP which skews the formula for what each individual is contributing.

If ww3 were to break out all those allied economies would go full war time economy and spend much more than 2% of GDP on their military for the alliance's victory. Russia is already war time economy and is struggling to even beat Ukraine. A little bit of military spending here or there is not going to be why "Russia were to turn on the West". They would never attempt to turn on the west unless the west breaks it's alliance which is what the USA is doing right now after over 80 years of ensuring mutual security through the most powerful alliance in the history of the world.

 

[4Samson]

Btw back to the retarded trade war thing, the NATO talk made me look it up in another way that maybe Americans can understand since they are unhappy with the percentages. Canada spends about 16% of our GDP annually importing (buying) USA goods, meanwhile USA spends about 1.5% of their GDP annually purchasing from Canada. Trump says this is not fair or beneficial to USA. Retarded. I did NOT miss the decimal place in the 16% btw.

 

[not2big]

Hey 4Samson. You have made some valid points against the government in power: however, at least 50% of it citizens are not in favor of its policies and want to continue business as usual with its major trading partners. Once the negative impact on the economy is felt, there will be a significant response to reduce the power of the current misinformed administration. Please do not give up on us..

 

[4Samson]

Hey 4Samson. You have made some valid points against the government in power: however, at least 50% of it citizens are not in favor of its policies and want to continue business as usual with its major trading partners. Once the negative impact on the economy is felt, there will be a significant response to reduce the power of the current misinformed administration. Please do not give up on us..

Yes we here in Canada do understand the difference between the USA citizens and the government. I did mention at least a couple times in my posts I am talking about the USA as a political/economic entity and not the individual persons. I also try to name Donald Trump by name as much as possible because yes it is mostly just all from one retarded man.

I get that at least 50% of your country does not support him and already understands what I am saying. As Canadians we actually expect the average American citizens in general to agree with our view, especially if the situation is properly explained to them. Not because of a sense of entitlement or because we are suppose to be your partners/ally but because if you just look at the facts, the trade war Donald Trump is starting with Canada is clearly bad for USA as well as bad for Canada. Just being capable of hurting us does not mean a win or benefit for you. We both get hurt. We know the average American citizen is capable of understanding that. And yes we do typically care what is good or bad for USA because again you are supposed to be our partner and ally. I do not think of caring about your partners and allies as a "Canadian characteristic" or any patriotic bullshit like that, is that not just the norm? Or at least I thought it was in the "west".

My repeated explanation of the actual reality of the trade situation between USA and Canada is for the other 50% of Americans who just blindly believe all the sh*t that comes out of Trump's mouth without doing any research. Most of what he says is either a blatant lie or a misrepresentation/twisting of facts. Without bias, objectively, there is no denying that the trade relationship between Canada and USA benefits both countries. If the other 50% of Americans can accept this rational fact, then perhaps even they can start seeing the rest of what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth about most other things as what it truly is. Retarded nonsense from a retarded man.

I am actually a more right wing guy tbh. People in my country would of probably previously even considered me pro Trump, I would just call it more open minded. I agree that some of the media is bias/unfair against him and could even understand voting for him. I would of not of voted for him but I did already expect him to win the election for at least a couple years prior despite everyone else and the media saying it will never happen (that is what they said the first time haha). I even predicted the whole immunity decision before the election, years in advance. I get the whole anti establishment thing or whatever it is that appeals to his base. None of that changes that since elected, a lot of the decisions he is making are objectively negatives for the USA. Especially internationally with it's partner and allies. I would hope even a Trump voter/supporter would understand that themselves when presented with accurate objective information.

To sum it up Canadians do not automatically hate all Americans now as individuals or think all of them hate us. Though I think it is important that you as American citizens understand how we do feel about the actions of your government, president and therefor your country. The best example I can give is if we were comparing the actions of your country to the actions of 1 individual American citizen. That would be if we were just walking down the sidewalk, in Canada, and a random stranger walked up to us and for no reason or benefit, out of no where gave us the middle finger and yelled "fuck you I am American!" In our face and spit on us. Other than the disrepect and other possible reactions, would you later actually buy something from that person? We know individual American citizens would not act this way, but it is important that those individual citizens understand that is how your government and leader is acting.

Trump won't be around long since he can not run for re-election but honestly what he is doing will leave a bad taste in Canadian mouths for much longer than Trump will be President. Not all is lost though, perhaps some future olive branch from a future government/leader that is equally respectful/thankful/beneficial to Canada as Trump has been disrespectful/insulting/damaging can start to change opinions. Canadians are known stereotypically to apologize a lot, perhaps a black and white, ego aside "we are sorry" apology from a future white house might go a long way.

 

[Pegasus]

While it is hard for me to understand some seem to have failed to grasp that the US has damaged ties with the west . Trade ties will reform with less trade etc with the US causing long term damage to US economy likewise military ties etc . In the short and medium term the US is entering a recession of it's own making which will have knock on effects to the west .

Trust is hard won and easy lost the effects of this term in office could be generational .

I have seen memes with the Z man as leader of the free world which might be amusing but the truth is that title will move to europe . I an see long term this might be good for europe

 

[Johnny D]

100%!

Trump and his followers do not understand how international trade and tariffs work. I suppose some on his team know better but just want to make him happy so go along with him. Consumer prices in the US are about to go up even further now and a number of industries are about to slow down.

 

[smerkinaturp]

100%!

Trump and his followers do not understand how international trade and tariffs work. I suppose some on his team know better but just want to make him happy so go along with him. Consumer prices in the US are about to go up even further now and a number of industries are about to slow down.

You are wrong. He understands them perfectly. China is on the ropes and a trade war will severely punish them.

 

[Johnny D]

He doesn’t understand the full implications of them and the impact they’ll have on the consumers and the economy. Nor does he understand how global trade should work to everyone’s benefit. He’s proven that in words and actions.

 

[akaTrex]

The Democrats have NO ONE in the bullpen. Newsom? Waltz? LMFAO!
Both Democrats and the Media ran cover for Biden, who suffers from Dementia! Clear as Day.

CNN Newscaster Jake Tapper has a book on Amazon about the cover-up!
Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again

Interesting how Democrats insisted we need legislation to control the Illegal Border crossings. Trump did it with a stroke of a pen!

Moving Biden out and Kamala in as the Presidential candite 2024 Election was like changing your shirt when you sh*t your pants!

 

[not2big]

Comparative advantage is an economic theory that argues that countries can benefit from trading with each other by focusing on making the things they are best at making, while buying the things they are not as good at making from other countries. This theory is based on the idea that every country has different cost structures and opportunity costs(costs in terms of other goods given up). By focusing on their strengths, they can produce more efficiently. Accordingly, if you buy products that cost the least and avoid buying products that are more expensive, everyone comes out ahead.

 

[4Samson]

You are wrong. He understands them perfectly. China is on the ropes and a trade war will severely punish them.

So he understands tariffs as China is on the ropes so we will put a 25% tariff on USA's #1 customer Canada to stop our closest ally from buying so much of our USA made products so that USA can severely punish China? Huh?

Stupid comment I know but I can't help notice that most Americans on here or at least the Trump supporters do not reply directly to anything I ask, say or facts I give about how the trade war with Canada is dumb for USA.

Btw are Americans going to stop buying iphones from China or just pay 25% more for them now?