Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)
- Thread starter HansTwilight
- Start date
madyogi
Moderator, Member of the Month April 2020, PEGym
My point earlier was simply to elucidate the distance between what a Biden administration would do and what Socialism seeks to do. My positions sit somewhere in the middle, generally speaking. Biden and standard neoliberal Democrats are not Socialists.
We should probably keep our debates about policy elsewhere, insofar as we're really interested in having them here at all. That said, it won't surprise you that I think the rising cost of healthcare is due to numerous things, not just increased regulations. To boil it down to that is to oversimplify the situation greatly. And when I think about something like Medicare-for-All, the calculation isn't strictly a cost benefit analysis (ie, driving down costs), it's also about not having my health insurance tied to my employer and a handful of other things. Student loan debt is somewhat tied to public subsidization, but mostly indirectly. My sense is it's tied to rising costs, which are ultimately tied to over-bloated administration budgets. In many ways it's the growth mentality, which goes back to the critique of capitalism. Keep in mind, one can respect capitalism for what it is and appreciate it's strengths, while still understanding its limitations and pitfalls. It shouldn't be an all or nothing prospect.
madyogi
Moderator, Member of the Month April 2020, PEGym
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
I'm not saying they should break up per say, I am saying that they should be under the same restrictions as the small stores in their respective location's.
Local stores where I am at that have been here for decades have been closed yet our Walmart is opened.
One must consider the good some of thes locals have done as well. Many have employed fathers, grandfathers and no the current generation.
Walmart would survive these shutdowns far better than a small shop.
The small mom and pop stores should have never been forced to close down. That's the governments fault.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
This is a direct result of the ABUSE of capitalism, the big fish can litigate their way into unfair advantage
madyogi
Moderator, Member of the Month April 2020, PEGym
This is one I can get behind, though I wouldn't characterize it as "the ABUSE of capitalism." It seems to me it is the logical end result of unregulated capitalism. It's one of the pitfalls of having growth and profit as the basis of your incentive structure. Politicians get on board because they are power hungry and money == power/influence.
Furthmermore, when it comes to monopolies, US government antitrust policies changed dramatically in the eighties when the Consumer Wellfare Principle came into vogue. Basically, if it theoretically results in lower prices for the consumer, then it must be good, right?
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
Well said.
I could have used the term unregulated which in a way is abuse or lack of proper governance
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 30,378
- Reaction score
- 3,416
- Points
- 133
- Location
- An inch and 1/2 deeper than before
Today on our local radio the stats were given on Covid.
The survival rate is 99.6% when all ages are factored in.
When is a pandemic a scamdemic?
The survival rate is 99.6% when all ages are factored in.
When is a pandemic a scamdemic?
It is a serious disease don't kid yourself. Yes most people survive but many of them feel pretty shitty for a while; some will feel like that for a month or longer. Limiting the spread just like we do for a cold and flu is important.
What is trying to be done is to protect the vulnerable. To medically impaired people a cold or flu is just as deadly although the media won't portray it that way; they are either lying stupid or both.
When you happen to believe that you the individual is responsible for yourself then you as a vulnerable individual should take precautions so that you yourself don't get sick. It should not be governments job to penalize the majority for the sake of a minority but that's the way it seems to go right now.
Why should a men's clothing store have to be closed because of covid? There is no reason. The owner keeps the place not crowded, mandates masks and can stay in business. No let's put him out of business because we have to protect a small minority; are they not capable of protecting themselves?
What is trying to be done is to protect the vulnerable. To medically impaired people a cold or flu is just as deadly although the media won't portray it that way; they are either lying stupid or both.
When you happen to believe that you the individual is responsible for yourself then you as a vulnerable individual should take precautions so that you yourself don't get sick. It should not be governments job to penalize the majority for the sake of a minority but that's the way it seems to go right now.
Why should a men's clothing store have to be closed because of covid? There is no reason. The owner keeps the place not crowded, mandates masks and can stay in business. No let's put him out of business because we have to protect a small minority; are they not capable of protecting themselves?
madyogi
Moderator, Member of the Month April 2020, PEGym
Not sure what radio station you're listening to, but this just patently false. We've done the math on this thread already, but here it is again:
According to the CDC, there are 13,626,022 confirmed cases in the US and 269,763 Covid-related deaths. That is a 1.9% death rate, which means the survival rate is 98.1%. In comparison, the seasonal flu death rate is something like 0.1-0.2%, which is at least 10x less than Covid.
Now, if you're making the assertion that the numbers are wrong, that's fine, but in that case how are you suggesting we make any sense of the scale or danger of the thing at all? If, based on anecdotal evidence, you can say way fewer people have died, or way more people have been infected and not died, then others can say whatever they want to say based on anecdotal evidence they might have, and we are truly in a post-modern dystopia where everyone makes up their own numbers and nothing really means anything.
That said, is a 98% survival rate horrifying? No. However, given how easily the thing spreads, I'd just as soon limit the size of gatherings I attend and wear a mask when I have to be inside in crowded places. That doesn't seem like a major imposition to me, especially considering there are vaccines and improved theraputics coming online all the time and in relative short order.
I can generally get behind this. Our state has been pretty reasonable, so this is essentially how we've handled the thing from the start, limited shutdowns, encouraging masks and smaller gatherings, etc.
I know many around these parts disagree about the efficacy of masks, but I happen to think it's pretty obvious they prevent the wearer from spewing as much nastiness (including the Covid) into their surrounding environment as they otherwise would. If that's the case, then it seems like a reasonable ask to have people wear masks when they're out and about to protect their neighbors during this time.
Many libertarians like to talk about the non-agression principle, which is basically like, my rights to freedom start to get sketchy when those rights infringe on your rights. For example, my right to take your sh*t is a crime, because it infringes on your right to own sh*t. My right to drive after a long night of drinking is a crime because it can potentially put you in danger, even if the likelihood you die from me driving drunk is near zero on the aggregate. To me, wearing a mask in crowded places is no different from not driving drunk. I honestly have a hard time understanding why it's such a big ask for some folks.
Last edited:
My little bear friend here is a fault in otherwise good reasoning. You based your death rate calculations based on confirmed cases. The old rule in virology is the number of actual cases is 3 times the total confirmed cases and that estimate is conservative by nature.
madyogi
Moderator, Member of the Month April 2020, PEGym
I wouldn't deny there are more actual cases than confirmed cases, just as there are more homicides than reported homicides and more rapes than reported rapes. As to what the multiplier should be, I can't be sure.
So, does that make you an old school virologist?
Old school yes; virologist well not really but I would say in general that dealing with human health and diseases has been my focus for about 40 years so I know a bit about it.
According to a study covering the period from July 1 through August 23 in the November Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report of the “questionable” CDC organization: after implementation of mask mandates in 24 Kansas counties, the increasing trend in COVID-19 incidence reversed. Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties, rates in mandated counties declined markedly after July 3, compared with those in nonmandated counties. Kansas counties that had mask mandates in place appear to have mitigated the transmission of COVID-19, whereas counties that did not have mask mandates continued to experience increases in cases.The findings in this report are consistent with declines in COVID-19 cases observed in 15 states and the District of Columbia, which mandated masks, compared with states that did not have mask mandates (7).
Last edited:
