Tunica Differences

[Keido]

I'm curious SA, I've heard the same theory about the longer warm up and I'm implementing this in to my routine as well, but what have you done for your warm ups in the past? I've heard good things about a moist heating pad, but the one I want is a bit pricey and has been low on my list of things to get so I haven't been able to test it out. I've only ever done, at most, 5 minutes with a heating pad or electric blanket.

 

[scientificapproach]

Keido. Good question.

Well at the advice of kingpole and Hairtrigger I have been doing longer warm ups. I was recently doing 20 mins but just afew weeks back cut it to 10. I may go back up again.

I used to always use the hot wash cloth method. And When I began 3 years ago I would only use it for about 5 mins. I now find wet heat the best kind of heat. When heating for 20 mins I would just lie in a hot bath. Just recently I have used hot water in a plastic cup. One thing about the plastic cup is it seems to heat more of my shaft as I sit down and bend my torso down slightly, this seems to mean more of my shaft exits my body into the cup. When lying in the bath more of the shaft will naturally receed into the body I think. When using the cup I like to aslo use a hot wash cloth over the pubic bone area above the cup to heat the ligs.

I now also like to heat after my workout too. And inbetween also. I think heat is very useful in PE.

 

[Big Al]

Thanks Al for sharing! This article has always intrigued me.

You're welcome

 

[kingpole]

I think the third layer problem can be overcome by longer warm ups and warm ups between stretching and jelqing session. an example of this type of PE would be.

Warm up 20 minutes. (if pressed for time you can shorten the initial warm up period as long as you warm up during the PE session)
Stretch five minutes.
Warm up five minutes.
Stretch five minutes.
Warm up five minutes.
Jelq five minutes.
Warm up five minutes.
Kegel for a few minutes
Warm up five minutes.

Alternatives to this would be to do PE in a hot shower for thirty minutes or sauna. or hot tub. Or the use of an infra red light.

 

[Lazy 8]

Health: The study was very broad on mentioning that the tunica provides penis rigidity and erectile strength. It didn't clearly state that the more layers of tunica, the more rigid the penis (or at least I didn't see where it did). It did, however, suggest that it might.

I presume that you might be onto something, though. You've actually reminded me of an old PEer named Gandolf/8-ball (he later changed names). He PEed for years without gaining. He actually did the penis enlargement videos on this site. If you check out the videos, you'll notice in penis is very rigid.

I always coughed it up to the fact that I thought he PEed very intensely, causing his penis to toughen up (which does happen if you go overboard). But perhaps he had 3 layers of tunica?

What constitutes "PEing very intensely"? How do you know if you're penis has "toughened up"? Going411by7 has reported he did PE for 2 hours a day at an early point in his progress and he's got a wang that's the envy of a lot of Gym members. So it doesn't seem duration of workout that constitutes intensity. With guys hanging heavy weights, stretching doesn't seem to constitute intensity. So what does? Lack of days off?

 

[hsarge]

While this is an old thread it has relevance to the observation that very large penii often have difficulty becoming rigid. A genetic study for the propensity of 1,2, and 3 layers would be interesting.

 

[agentpenguin]

Thread bump for info.

Now perhaps one clue as to is you have a thicker tunica could be if you are easily able to surpass your erect limit easliy during certain activities? I hear some gusy easily gain a half inch or so when edging, pumping, clamping, jeqling?? I have never really noticed this happen, now perhaps this says something??

These reports definitely got me thinking. I'm quite certain I've pushed 9.5-10 EQ on some edging sessions (obvious veins & arteries, etc.) but I never saw extended measurements. Good luck with your PE journey.

 

[kickinthemebs]

Do people still subscribe to this idea?

 

[actionbuddy]

This is a great article that was posted over at TP a while back. The entire article requires a paid subscription and no one ever posted the link. It's a very interesting study and could explain why some gain easily while some don't gain at all. Thought I would share it.



INTRODUCTION

The tunica albuginea of the penis lends great flexibility, rigidity and tissue strength to the penis [1]. It consists of an inner circular and an outer longitudinal layer [2]. Intracavernosal pillars arise from the inner layer and radiate into the corpora cavernosa (CC). Together with the septum, theyprovide support to the erectile tissue [3, 4]. The corpus spongiosum lacks the outer layer and the intracorporeal pillars [3].

The anatomical data regarding the origin, morphology, as well as nerve and blood supply of the bulbocavernosus muscle (BCM) and ischiocavernosus muscle (ICM), are well documented in the literature [5, 6, 7, 8]. However, the exact mode of insertion of these muscles into the TA of the penile shaft needs to be described more clearly. Detailed knowledge of the mode of attachment of the BC and IC muscle fibers into the penile TA seems necessary for a better understanding of the role of these muscles in the mechanism of erection. In the current communication, we studied the penile TA and the mode of insertion of the IC and BC muscles into it.

MATERIAL AND METHODS

The study was comprised of 28 cadaveric specimens: 18 adult (mean age 37.3 ± 8.6 SD years, range 26–48) and 10 fully mature neonatal cadavers. All the cadavers had normal genitourinary organs. The obtained specimens consisted of the perineum and included the penis with its bulb and crura and parts of the ischial tuberosities to allow for collection of the cavernosus muscles from origin to insertion. The specimens were fixed in 10% formalin. The TA and the mode of insertion of the cavernosus muscles into the penis were studied by the naked eye with the help of a magnifying loupe and bright light. Sections for microanatomical studies were then taken from the penile shaft and the root including the bulb and crura. The specimens were stained with hematoxylin, eosin and Verhoeff van Gieson stain. Each section was studied for the TA structure and the relation of the two cavernosus muscles to it.

RESULTS

In all 28 cases, the TA of the CC consisted of collagen fibers impregnated with few elastic fibers. The collagen fibers were arranged in bundles in a wavy pattern. In 20 cadaveric specimens, the TA of the CC was formed of two layers: an inner circular and an outer longitudinal (Figure 1). In six of the 28 specimens, it consisted of three layers: an inner circular, intermediate longitudinal and outer circular (Figure 2). In the remaining two specimens, the TA was formed of a single longitudinal layer (Figure 3). At the junction of the CC with the corpus spongiosum (CS) in all the studied specimens, the TA of the CC consisted only of the circular layer. The TA of the CS consisted of only one layer with circularly orientedfibers; no longitudinal fibers were detected in any of the specimens examined.

Mode of Insertion of the Bulbo-/Ischio-Cavernosus Muscles into the Tunica Albuginea

The BCM lay over the penile bulb and its muscle bundles were arranged in 3 groups: 2 lateral and 1 median (Figure 4). The lateral fibers were inserted into the perineal membrane. The median fibers were grouped together forming a ribbon that extended over the penile bulb and the proximal part of the CS, where it bifurcated into two limbs (Figure 4). Each limb proceeded laterally forward and approached the ICM at the lateral surface of each CC. The two muscles fused, forming one muscular limb, which, in 18 cadavers, ended in tendinous fibers that, together with the contralateral fibers, formed a fibrous belt over the dorsum of the 2 CCs. In 6/28 cadaveric specimens, the conjoint limb continued over the CC dorsum as fleshy fibers; it contained no tendinous fibers (Figure 5). In the remaining 4/28 specimens, the conjoint limb of the BCM and ICM was attached on each side to the lateral surface of the CC (Figure 6); no extension forming a belt over the dorsum of the CC was found.

DISCUSSION

The current study could shed some light on the structural-functional adaptation of both the TA and cavernosus muscles’ insertion to the erectile mechanism. The TA consisted mainly of collagen fibers that are inextensible. However, the wavy pattern of collagen in the flaccid state of the penis, as well as the impregnation of the TA with few elastic fibers, apparently give the TA a degree of expandability during erection.

Variations in the morphologic structure of the TA of the CC were detected. The two-layered TA was the most common with 71.4%, while the three-layered TA was encountered in 21.4% and the single layer in 7.2%. The exact significance of the structural variations of the TA during erection is not known. It is likely that the degree of tumescence depends on the TA structure. Thus, we assume that the triple-layered TA gives more firmness to penile erection than the single or double-layered TA. Similarly, the TA of 2 layers, which is the most common pattern, would provide a stronger erection than the single layer. This comparison of the role of the different layers of the TA in erection seems applicable, provided the other factors of penile erection are standardized. Alternatively, it might be that the increase of the TA layers impede the erectile process. On the other hand, the CS is covered by a single layer of TA, and this fact might diminish its rigidity on erection compared to the rigidity of the CC. However, the role of the different layers of the TA in erection needs to be investigated.

As regards to the mode of cavernosus muscles’ insertion into the TA, 3 patterns were encountered: fibrous belt, muscular belt and beltless. The fibrous belt insertion of the 2 cavernosus muscles was the most common pattern, representing 75% of the studied specimens. Meanwhile, the muscular belt occurred in 21.5% and the beltless type in 3.5%. The role of the different patterns of insertion of the conjoint cavernosus muscles in the TA is not known. The belt form, fibrous or fleshy, of cavernosus muscles’ insertion appears to be more efficient in compressing the CCs during erection than the beltless type. Furthermore, the fibrous belt apparently effects a firmer CC compression than the muscular belt. The role during erection, however, of the different patterns of cavernosus muscles insertion into the CCs needs to be studied further.

In conclusion, the TA occurred in three histomorphologic patterns: single, double and triple layers, the most common being the double-layered pattern. The different TA patterns are suggested to affect penile rigidity of various degrees during erection. Furthermore, the 3 types of cavernosus muscles’ insertion into the TA (fibrous, muscular belt or beltless) appear to produce variable degrees of CC compression. However, further studies are required to investigate the role of the different types of TA and cavernosus muscles’ insertion in the mechanism of erection.

REFERENCES

1. Andersson KE, Wagner G (1995): Physiology of penile erection. Physiol Rev 75:191–236.

2. Bitsch M, Kromann-Andersen B, et al. (1990): The elasticity and the tesile strength of tunica albuginea of the corpora cavernosa. J Urol 143:642–644.

3. Bosch RJ, Bernard F, et al. (1991): Penile detumescence: Characterization of three phases. J Urol 146:867–871.

4. Goldstein AMB, Meehan JP, et al. (1985): The fibrous skeleton of the corpora cavernosa and its probable function in the mechanism of erection. Br J Urol 57:574–577.

5. Hsu GL, Brock G, et al. (1994): Anatomy and strength of the tunica albuginea: Its revelance to penile prothesis extrusion. J Urol 151:1205–1208.

6. Lue TF (1998): Physiology of penile erection and pathophysiology of erectile dysfunction and priapism. In: Campbell’s Urology, 7th edition. Walsh PC, Retik AB, Vaughan ED, Wein AJ, (Eds). Philadelphia: WB Saunders Co, pp 1157–1180.

7. Shirai M, Ishii N, et al. (1978): Hemodynamic mechanism of erection in the human penis. Arch Androl 1:345–349.

8. Tamaki M (1992): Mechanism preventing backflow from the canine corpora cavernosa to arteries in the rigid phase of penile erection. Urol Int 48:64–70.

Now that this thread has been bumped up, I am curious about this discussion. Interesting article, which I included so we are on the same page... Any new research?

But, the mind reels with all the anatomical names... I'm very familiar with the basic anatomical names of parts of the penis, but, considering we participate on a site where many guys still don't understand the difference between a "gland" and the "glans", this discussion would benefit from having some visual documentation.

The OP's article mentions "Figures", which I assume to mean diagrams, drawings, or photos, but they are not presented, nor accessible as links.

Other than simple, generic pics of penis anatomy, does anyone have links to visuals that show, for instance, from the original article:

"Tunica albuginea... inner circular and outer longitudinal layer... intracavernosal pillars... corpora cavernosa (CC)... septum... corpus spongiosum... intracorporeal pillars... bulbocavernosus muscle (BCM)... ischiocavernosus muscle (ICM)... BC and IC muscle fibers... crura... ischial tuberosities... cavernosus muscles..."... Etc.

Lordy!... As I said, the mind reels.

I guess I am a simple-minded "visually oriented" guy... I need to SEE what this is all about to understand it.

I'll try to find some good, understandable visual examples and post them as links, below. Seems like most posts about tunica albuginea deal with erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Disease. But, I will search further.

A/B

From Google Images, TMI?:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tun...1C4vBoATZiYDABQ&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1204&bih=858

http://www.the-bent-penis-website.com/corpus-spongiosum.html

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1949325-overview

https://www.centerforreconstructiveurology.org/erectile-dysfunction/functional-penile-anatomy.htm

 

[NeverEnough9]

I was just thinking, in the cases of priapism wouldn't the doctor be able to establish tunica layer count/thickness as they performed the surgery/repair?

 

[lilbigman]

Do people still subscribe to this idea?

Wow, I find this very interesting. Great read, thanx for bumping this up. I can't believe the comments on this post arn't 100 pages long. This would explain soooooo many things. This is a great example that makes perfect sense of why some gain easily and others very slowly. If you have 1 layer to stretch and expand how can it not be easier than having to work 2 or even worse 3!?

This also seems to me to be a possible correlation of erection quality. It stands to reason if you have a stronger thicker tunica you would have more support thus becoming very hard. While if you have a thinner 1 layered tunica you would have less support and structure, therefore weaker erections. What I mean by hard and weaker erections is that one when you grab it feels hard as a rock the other softer and more malleable.

I also find it interesting that there seems to be a possible correlation with their findings and average penis size. 3 layer 21.4%, 2 layer 72.4%, 1 layer 7.2%. Doesn't that sound familiar? It seems to me that those are very similar numbers to those of average penis size.

I may be grasping at straws here, but I can't help but wonder if this also would explain showers. Lets face it there are definitely not a lot of showers out there. The majority of us are growers. So would 7.2% of of us being a shower be accurate? And then the next question then would be, are all showers easy gainers? If the answer is yes, I would have to say the evidence is overwhelming. I see some polls being conducted in the immediate future.

 

[Big Al]

I was just thinking, in the cases of priapism wouldn't the doctor be able to establish tunica layer count/thickness as they performed the surgery/repair?

Only if they knew what to look for and only if that's part of the procedure. Chances are, the docs aren't going to concern themselves with such things at that moment.

 

[jockinthebox]

VERY interesting study and an equally interesting theory, lilbigman! Does Al have any input on lilbigman's theory? Makes sense to me...

 

[closed224]

I have struggled for years to correlate these data to my own experience.
1- I am a constant grower, I Dont say easy because I spend as much as 4 hours per day doing PE.
2- ^^^still doesn't toughen so much that I can't grow.
3- I can feel layers of longitudinal and circular tunics structures in my penis. I can see the circular tunics structures when erect. In fact they have become much more prominent.
4- I am not a shower, in fact I have an extremely small flaccid.
5- While it takes longer for me to achieve a fully erect penis as compared to my younger days it still is extremely rock hard. It does not compress longitudinally at all, and if you try compressing a large section such as a hand full you are completely unsuccessful, however if I try compressing a small section, such as the width of a clamp it compresses to a very small girth.
I struggle on with these questions and anecdotely I am unsuccessful in applying the theories stemming from this study. I will soon be sign I g up with BigAl and hope that he might be able to help me with these questions. Until then any new data as relates would be wonderful.

 

[jockinthebox]

Wow, I find this very interesting. Great read, thanx for bumping this up. I can't believe the comments on this post arn't 100 pages long. This would explain soooooo many things. This is a great example that makes perfect sense of why some gain easily and others very slowly. If you have 1 layer to stretch and expand how can it not be easier than having to work 2 or even worse 3!?

This also seems to me to be a possible correlation of erection quality. It stands to reason if you have a stronger thicker tunica you would have more support thus becoming very hard. While if you have a thinner 1 layered tunica you would have less support and structure, therefore weaker erections. What I mean by hard and weaker erections is that one when you grab it feels hard as a rock the other softer and more malleable.

I also find it interesting that there seems to be a possible correlation with their findings and average penis size. 3 layer 21.4%, 2 layer 72.4%, 1 layer 7.2%. Doesn't that sound familiar? It seems to me that those are very similar numbers to those of average penis size.

I may be grasping at straws here, but I can't help but wonder if this also would explain showers. Lets face it there are definitely not a lot of showers out there. The majority of us are growers. So would 7.2% of of us being a shower be accurate? And then the next question then would be, are all showers easy gainers? If the answer is yes, I would have to say the evidence is overwhelming. I see some polls being conducted in the immediate future.

I'm certainly not a qualified candidate for this sample, since I'm still a newbie (>90 days in on JP90); but in spite of that, here are some facts: 1) I broke my wrist 2/18, and had surgery 2/20; 2) I was unable to PE at all for over 3 weeks and only limited & inconsistently since starting back mid-March; 3) I was still able to post a gain of .25" BPEL and .1+ MEG on 3/31 post to MYDB Challenge. 4) I have always been a "shower" (beginner 5-5.5" flaccid hang, non-stretched, NBP); 5) My erections have always been fairly malleable, not rock-hard like some guys describe theirs. 6) There has always been only a 1" difference between my flaccid length and my erect length and that appears to continue to remain equalized with the growth currently doing PE (flaccid hang is now 5.5-6") ("shower").

I may be wrong, but I seem to fit that 7.2% group (perhaps). Only time will tell I guess, once I regain use of my left wrist and am able to fully maintain a routine. I do find the correlation between the study and lilbigman's theory interesting, though.

 

[lilbigman]

I have struggled for years to correlate these data to my own experience.
1- I am a constant grower, I Dont say easy because I spend as much as 4 hours per day doing PE.
2- ^^^still doesn't toughen so much that I can't grow.
3- I can feel layers of longitudinal and circular tunics structures in my penis. I can see the circular tunics structures when erect. In fact they have become much more prominent.
4- I am not a shower, in fact I have an extremely small flaccid.
5- While it takes longer for me to achieve a fully erect penis as compared to my younger days it still is extremely rock hard. It does not compress longitudinally at all, and if you try compressing a large section such as a hand full you are completely unsuccessful, however if I try compressing a small section, such as the width of a clamp it compresses to a very small girth.
I struggle on with these questions and anecdotely I am unsuccessful in applying the theories stemming from this study. I will soon be sign I g up with BigAl and hope that he might be able to help me with these questions. Until then any new data as relates would be wonderful.

I think this is a perfect example of this study. You my friend I believe would be in the strong 2 or possibly even 3 layer tunica group. This group would have these characteristics; Average to smaller starting stats. A Grower. Rock hard solid erections with minimal to no expansion. And Hard Gainer.

Where as the 1 layered tunica group would have probably bigger starting stats, A shower. Firm, but not rock hard erections. More malleable with easy expansion. And an easy gainer.

This just my theory based upon the study.

 

[lilbigman]

I'm certainly not a qualified candidate for this sample, since I'm still a newbie (>90 days in on JP90); but in spite of that, here are some facts: 1) I broke my wrist 2/18, and had surgery 2/20; 2) I was unable to PE at all for over 3 weeks and only limited & inconsistently since starting back mid-March; 3) I was still able to post a gain of .25" BPEL and .1+ MEG on 3/31 post to MYDB Challenge. 4) I have always been a "shower" (beginner 5-5.5" flaccid hang, non-stretched, NBP); 5) My erections have always been fairly malleable, not rock-hard like some guys describe theirs. 6) There has always been only a 1" difference between my flaccid length and my erect length and that appears to continue to remain equalized with the growth currently doing PE (flaccid hang is now 5.5-6") ("shower").

I may be wrong, but I seem to fit that 7.2% group (perhaps). Only time will tell I guess, once I regain use of my left wrist and am able to fully maintain a routine. I do find the correlation between the study and lilbigman's theory interesting, though.

Exactly!! You my friend would be in the 1 layer tunica group. If this theory is correct you may have a BIG future ahead of you. Pun intended.

 

[closed224]

Thanks for the clarification. I was reading it backwards. I will have to study it a little harder. I have always read it backwards. God I love when I do that, not.

 

[jockinthebox]

Exactly!! You my friend would be in the 1 layer tunica group. If this theory is correct you may have a BIG future ahead of you. Pun intended.

Gee, I hope so, lilbigman! While I joined PE Gym primarily for improved EQ, I'll take all the erect extra SPRING I can get:biggrin1:...but I'd like to keep the flaccid from increasing so much-it's kind of a pain to hide.

 

[Big Al]

I wouldn't attempt to correlate the ease of erection with the variabilities between tunicae- unless perhaps if you're at the extreme low end of the EQ spectrum. EQ is more of a function of other factors.