Update: Iguana and I are looking to get a concise post about theory out sometime this week. It might be early next week, though, as Valentine's Day has been known to cause a few setbacks for many non-single men 
The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory
- Thread starter remek
- Start date
I focused only on hanging. I used only the BIB hangers too...well the "Starter" and "hardcore Starter" (no gel cushion). Used as much as 27.5lbs at one point...but mainly between 15-17.5lbs after spending many months working up to that level of course.
Interesting. Thanks for the answers, SWM! When you were hanging were you mainly gaining length? Do you feel that clamping or hanging helped more with your erection quality?
I've never (yet) had issues with erections even before PE. I will say from experience, when I was hanging after a long day of hanging, I would get "throbbing hard" erections when I got aroused later on. The same applies now when I finish a day of stretching. I attribute the 'throbbing' to tissue fatigue...it feels good though!
Thank you, SWM!
I think you're probably dead on with the throbbing being attributed to "tissue fatigue."
I'm not sure if you had a chance to read about this theory or not (the best overview of it is here), but your experience might go along with the theory. It's possible that your tunica was fatigued from the hanging, thus lessening the "gap" between the SM and tunica.
What do you think? What about you, Iguana?
I think you're probably dead on with the throbbing being attributed to "tissue fatigue."
I'm not sure if you had a chance to read about this theory or not (the best overview of it is here), but your experience might go along with the theory. It's possible that your tunica was fatigued from the hanging, thus lessening the "gap" between the SM and tunica.
What do you think? What about you, Iguana?
I'm honestly not sure how to answer that. Nothing personal. I've just never gotten wrapped up much in the various "theories" that have floated around the various PE forums over the years. I've just done the work, and been rewarded with gains. When the "LOT Theory" was floating around, and considered the 'rule of thumb' when hanging, I pretty much ignored it, and just did my hanging....for example.
So you think maybe the tunica started retracting after long sessions? Maybe as a protective response?
Is it possible his gains came mostly from lig stretching? I have always reasoned that hanging would mostly target the tunica. However, I have never did any hanging, so I can't really say that with certainty. I know when I stretch with a Captn's Wench I feel it almost solely in my ligs. He could have gained some smooth muscle from hanging also. We know that a smooth muscle response to stretch is growth. It may be with extended hanging times that the smooth muscle starts to absorb some of the stress leading to the fatigue he spoke of?
Possibly. I've noticed the same phenomena myself. I haven't put in too many hanging hours, but I recall on several occasions that right after a hanging session my penis would be extremely hard over the next 24 hours, sometimes more.
Yea, but wouldn't this counteract what we're saying here (hanging and stretching mainly targets the tunica)?
The ligaments idea is a possibility. How much of your hanging gains do you think came from lig gains, SWM?
There's really no way to tell!
If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?
If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?
There's really no way to tell!
If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?
No, I gained evenly in all length measurements.
Interesting. I'd have to presume that most of your gains didn't come from ligament gains then.
Hard to say. Again, like with the "LOT" theory...I just put my head down and did the hanging. I was mostly sore at two points. In the ligs...in the base area, and at the attachment points where the hanger was on my penis.
Electrical Muscle Stimulator
Electrical Muscle Stimulator
Based on the above smooth muscle theory I started reading whatever I could fine on smooth muscle in general. I believe that the various exercises where all doing here is causing the smooth muscle to contract and expand. Smooth muscle reacts normally by involuntary electrical signals from our nervous system. Meaning muscle contractions without our full control much different from muscle contractions produced when doing bicep curls.
This got me thinking what if were to use a TENS device "Transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation" the same devices physical therapy people use to simulate muscle contractions. I have found tests were this process has been done on humans for ED issues. I believe this would be a more presice way to know how much of a muscle workout we are applying to penises.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Electrical Muscle Stimulator
Here are my current thoughts on the subject of smooth muscle:
- For the penis to enlarge, the smooth muscle (cells and sinusoid spaces) must enlarge too. This is how I think penis enlargement takes place. I don't have the time to go into complete detail right now, and I won't for the next 1-3 months (another reason I gave my quick opinion in this thread), but I do plan on doing more research and writing a few "Internet" articles on the subject.
- Because the penis is compromised of 50 percent smooth muscle, and smooth muscle has a lot of the basic properties of skeletal muscle (the biceps, triceps, and all the other commonly known muscles), we can presume that it might react to stress the same way normal muscle does. Which is a no brainer for us all! What are we doing here? Exercising! Moreover, nearly every single guideline we have is based off body-building/exercising/weightlifting concepts in one way or another! Think about it -- Bib, presumably one of the biggest gainers (if we accept his claims as facts), used a weightlifting concept known as "progressive overload." Peter Dick, another big gainer uses a common weightlifting program known as "muscle confusion" (in which he keeps the muscles guessing). And now, more recently (thanks to guys like you [xeno], Shiver, MX, Modesto, Wadzilla, and many more) we are now realizing cyclic training using deconditioning breaks helps us keep the penis in a responsive state. And cycylic training is a very popular weightlifting principle (if not the biggest).
- Albeit, this doesn't particularly mean we can attribute the growth to smooth muscle growth -- but regardless, if the penis grows, the smooth muscle must grow too. The article I quoted above stated: less smooth muscle = higher chance of ED. Obviously this isn't the case for us PEers. Most of us report harder erections.
- Also, It is well documented that smooth muscle can grow due to stress. I have a whole book on the subject, in fact. It is called
Hypertrophic Response in Smooth Muscle, by Charles L. Seidel and Normal W. Weisbrodt. It appears this book has numerous scholarly articles on the growth of smooth muscle. Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...ref=sr_1_1/103-1669662-1883061?_encoding=UTF8All that being said, I hope it's enough reference for you, at least for now
- I also think this can explain why PE gains are permanent (for the most part), opposed to traditional muscular growth gains. Think about it like this: the smooth muscle in the penis is exercised when we jelq, stretch, and incorporate other exercises. These exercises take the penis (and the smooth muscle) beyond it's normal threshold. But what is the normal threshold? An erection. Masturbation, sex, anything that involves an erection is exercise too! It's typically just not enough to cause growth. Therefore, after the gains are cemented, and we retire all we need to do to keep the gains is have frequent erections -- in which the erections are enough exercise to keep the gains. It is also well documented that as men get older, and they use their penis less, the smaller it becomes. Note: I don't have a reference for this off-hand.
Based on the above smooth muscle theory I started reading whatever I could fine on smooth muscle in general. I believe that the various exercises where all doing here is causing the smooth muscle to contract and expand. Smooth muscle reacts normally by involuntary electrical signals from our nervous system. Meaning muscle contractions without our full control much different from muscle contractions produced when doing bicep curls.
This got me thinking what if were to use a TENS device "Transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation" the same devices physical therapy people use to simulate muscle contractions. I have found tests were this process has been done on humans for ED issues. I believe this would be a more presice way to know how much of a muscle workout we are applying to penises.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Artman,
First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!
Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)
It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.
Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!
-Iguana
First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!
Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)
It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.
Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!
-Iguana
Thanks for the welcome! Here is a link that I have read. That's pointing me in this direction.
SpringerLink - Journal Article
C. G. Stief1
, E. Weller2, T. Noack3, M. Djamilian1, M. Meschi1, M. Truss1 and U. Jonas1(1) Department of Urology, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(2) Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(3) Department of Physiology, University of Marburg, Marburg, Germany
Summary Transcutaneous application of low-frequency electric current in the treatment of partially or temporarily denervated striated muscles is widely used to prevent or treat muscular atrophy. Due to the high regenerative capacity of smooth-muscle cells, this approach should be beneficial in the treatment of diseases with smooth-muscle degeneration due to partial denervation. Our study was done to evaluate the possible beneficial effect of transcutaneously applied low-frequency electric current on the corpus cavernosum penis in the treatment of erectile dysfunction. After a comprehensive workup, 21 patients with chronic erectile dysfunction (20/21 vasoactive nonresponders) received daily (3–5×20 min) transcutaneous functional electromyostimulation of the corpus cavernosum smooth muscles [FEMCC; zero-line symmetric impulses of trapezoid shape, 2-channel device with alternating stimulations; frequency (f), 10–20 Hz for channel I and 20–35 Hz for channel II; impulse duration (t i ), 100–150
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I am just bumping this thread out for it be be renewed. This is definately one of the most fantastic threads I have ever read and it gives great insight to the formation and discussion of smooth muscle and theories on how it may be what is now the back bone of PE.
I would encourage any one looking to learn the basics of PE to read this thread.
I would encourage any one looking to learn the basics of PE to read this thread.
I found this thread because of BigO's bump, and like what i found. Interesting food for thought. Bump!
Wow great thread. I wanted to comment with great minds and to mark myself a spot for historical purposes. I will be reading the book about smooth muscle, it fascinates me. Again thank you all for your thoughts,theories and contributions...keep them coming...lol...slight pun intended. I gained some length this quarter, will share stats in progress forum.
