Long Term Consequences

Johndoe

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Anyone PE for 10 years or longer? I spend probably 2-4 hours a day reading about PE related material trying to fully gauge everything before I jump head first into it all. I have read threads where people have asked their friends who are physicians about their opinion on PE and the mechanisms through which they received gains. All the threads I have read showed the physician reacted very negatively to PE. Now, I understand that if you ask a physician that you are being treated by they will tell you that PE is bad simply because there are no studies and they don't want to get sued. But a friend who happens to be a physician is more likely to be level with you and not simply tell you something unless they personally believe it. The general theme is that the physician not just concerned about the immediate risks, but the long term risks.

So what evidence do we have that there are no longer term negative consequences? Even though we see size gains, could we be setting ourselves up for negative biological changes that will manifest themselves later in life (even many years later)? I really think responses from people who have done PE (not just kegals and edging) for around 10 years would be constructive, but feedback from at least 5 years is helpful as well.
 
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normalguy

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Your question is a good one but I think very few people are able to answer it... I might be wrong but I think that going411by7 and diamondback are the most ancient PEers here and probably JonPop and PESG... But you won't be able to have a clear view of the long term effect of PE with only a couple of people!
 

Pegasus

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Oh god you could say this about so many things, docs were allways trying to get me to stop sport etc. I am far more concerned about the effects of wine.
 

larrypinball

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Going411x7

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Yeah, I'm one of the "ancient" ones here. Remek has been at it (methinks) as long as I have--and Jon PoP as well, I believe, maybe longer. I have been at it for 7 years--started this month back in 2003. I can't think of any negative effects, except sitting too long at the computer--which reminds me that I have to take my two mile walk shortly.

Here is a long-term effect that you might consider. If you spend all or most of your time stretching, (and not jelqing, kegeling and edging) my two stand-bys), you may lose erection quality. Then you will have to reverse the order of your work-outs and get back to jelqing, edging, and kegeling. Just keep this in mind.

Dear Lord! When I think of the positive effects of p.e., they FAR outnumber any negative ones. I could go on for an hour, but I'll stop here. :D
 
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Johndoe

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Here is a study I found that looked at differences between the penises of old and young rats and attempted to make correlations to age related ED:

:: Asian Journal of Andrology ::

I found this relevant because it showed thinning of the tunica albuginea in the older rats and this was a possible attribute to age related ED. What is striking is that some PE theories state that changes in elasticity or thinning of the tunica albuginea are what results in size gains as it is the tunica that limits the expansion of the corpora cavernosa. Smooth muscle decrease was another attribute hypothesized to be involved in age related ED, so the tunica theory is not 100% conclusive, but that study shows some evidence.
 

Johndoe

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I still would like more anecdotal evidence from long time vets, but in the mean time I am going to post more studies to see if we can investigate possible long term effects.

Structural alterations in the tunica
Structural alterations in the tunica albuginea of the penis: impact of Peyronie's disease, ageing and impotence - Akkus - 2003 - British Journal of Urology - Wiley Online Library
-Discusses recent studies and theories of ED and peyronie's disease that states microvascular injury within tunica followed by a inflammation causes the damage and thus plaque. Found that younger men and those without ED had a higher amount and more organized collagen fibers. "Any alterations in their structure affect the tensile strength and elasticity of the penis and might lead to lead to erectile impairment." I think that the tunica plays a role in occluding the veins that outflow blood from the penis. When the tunica is damaged it can't occlude and prevent the blood from back flowing, hence impotence.

DLD of mattersofsize has been a big proponent of plastic deformation of tunica as a theory for enlargement as have others. It makes sense to me, but it does make you wonder whether it has a negative effect on your penis, especially in later years (think premature aging of penis). In an interview DLD had (with Salon?), the interviewer noted that DLD would not stand up with his erection, which is evidence of loss of the penises ability to occlude the veins controlling blood out flow during erection...
 

Johndoe

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I will post more later on this guys, I have an appointment to make. Please post your feedback or more studies for either side of this debate so we can have a clearer view of what may be going on.
 

flex

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In an interview DLD had (with Salon?), the interviewer noted that DLD would not stand up with his erection, which is evidence of loss of the penises ability to occlude the veins controlling blood out flow during erection...
Can you please elaborate on this? What do you mean "would not stand up with his erection"? Do you mean if he stood up, he'd lose it, or what?
 

Johndoe

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"As big as he's gotten, he refuses to stand up with an erection. When I ask him why, he just laughs: "Oh, I'm quirky. You don't want to go into that part of my mind.""

Loss of erection while standing is a symptom of ED for some men as the penis loses blood to the body when in a healthy erection the tissues should be strong enough to occlude those veins properly.
 

flex

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"As big as he's gotten, he refuses to stand up with an erection. When I ask him why, he just laughs: "Oh, I'm quirky. You don't want to go into that part of my mind.""
Yeah, sounds quirky, and I still don't know what that means. Is he the one who takes viagra because if his performance anxiety, or am I thinking of another PE legend?

Loss of erection while standing is a symptom of ED for some men as the penis loses blood to the body when in a healthy erection the tissues should be strong enough to occlude those veins properly.
Never heard that. Ever. Have heard young guys complain about that, probably just due to masturbation habits, etc. How does standing compare to laying on your back in terms of blood flow to your penis? I have a Vacutech pump and they recommend standing to increase blood flow.
 
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frb3

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John:

I do believe you are getting hung up on minutia. The line from the movei=The Good The Bad and the Ugly sums it up: "You gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."

Personally have gained 7/8" in length and close to 1/2" in girth, since starting June of last year. No ill effects to date. Have a touch of peyronie's on one side, which I am trying to overcome. On this part you should check the Italian Study on this disease and its correction by the use of traction devices.

I would wager as much as 27 cents you are an engineer or a technical type of some kind.
 

Johndoe

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FX, here is a physician commenting on it, I know he is not a urologist, but they all get general training in such conditions in medical school. If you want more information, just google it, tons of hits come up.
Erectile Dysfunction/soft glans - after use of rec drugs --Doctors Lounge(TM)

Frb3, I appreciate your feedback. I want to start, but I also want to make sure it is 100% safe for me, which includes the long term. Some people state "what do you have to lose", well my ability to get an erection for one. This may or may not happen, but before I risk it I want to make sure I have all the information I can get to fully assess PE. I posted another thread about how I have an hourglass deformity in my midshaft when I am either cold or semierect. It doesn't look normal and none of my friends I have asked have it. So, maybe that means I am predisposed for injury, who knows, but I am trying to get more info before I start. Its good to hear people with Peyronies disease such as yourself can do PE and have seen no injury. In the case of Peyronies as I am sure you know, it is hypothesized that an inflammatory disorder coupled with trauma may be the culprit. If you have this issue and are not seeing problems, then it is doubtful that I will and which is why I respect and appreciate such feedback. But I still want more from others who have been in the game even longer.
 

Johndoe

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Fbr, I did read a traction study that showed a length increase, but no girth gains from a European journal, it may or may not be the study you are referring to. I've read a pumping study for Peyronie's curvature that showed statistically significant increase in length as a side effect, I would assume girth too but they didn't measure it. On the other hand different studies with pumping showed no permanent size changes even after months of regular use. But in general I think at least some gain is possible. To answer your question, I am a premedical student. I hold a Bachelors in Science and am working on my second degree (Biology) which I may or may not finish depending if I get into medical school next year.

I don't plan on doing anything extreme, mainly 50-70% erect jelqing, pumping at 4 Hg and less, and maybe some light stretches.
I'm not even asking for much, I'm 6.5" BPEL and 4.25 MEG and would be happy at 7.5" BPEL and 5.25 MEG. So basically a 1x1 inch increase.
 

flex

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FX, here is a physician commenting on it, I know he is not a urologist, but they all get general training in such conditions in medical school. If you want more information, just google it, tons of hits come up.
Erectile Dysfunction/soft glans - after use of rec drugs --Doctors Lounge(TM)
I've already seen this post before. Find "tons of hits" on what? Soft glan syndrome or losing erections when standing? I was specifically talking about the latter, and I've never seen one quote from a urologist (or anyone) who said that is a sign of ED.

I'm all for safety my friend, and I think asking these questions in advance is an excellent thing. But read carefully and use common sense. FYI there is a good amount of discussion on soft glans at Thundersplace.
 

flex

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I've read a pumping study for Peyronie's curvature that showed statistically significant increase in length as a side effect, I would assume girth too but they didn't measure it. On the other hand different studies with pumping showed no permanent size changes even after months of regular use.
Please provide links. I'm aware of the pumping/peyronies study. I'm also aware of ONE other, and that was for guys with very small sizes. And even though the study said "no significant gain" they also said that the mean length after 6 months increased by about 4 percent. That same percentage on a guy starting at 6" would be 1/4". Not bad for 6 months of pumping, only 3 times a week for 20 minutes.
 
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calixto

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Yeah, I'm one of the "ancient" ones here. Remek has been at it (methinks) as long as I have--and Jon PoP as well, I believe, maybe longer. I have been at it for 7 years--started this month back in 2003. I can't think of any negative effects, except sitting too long at the computer--which reminds me that I have to take my two mile walk shortly.

Here is a long-term effect that you might consider. If you spend all or most of your time stretching, (and not jelqing, kegeling and edging) my two stand-bys), you may lose erection quality. Then you will have to reverse the order of your work-outs and get back to jelqing, edging, and kegeling. Just keep this in mind.

Dear Lord! When I think of the positive effects of p.e., they FAR outnumber any negative ones. I could go on for an hour, but I'll stop here. :D
I couldn't have said it better. This especially also holds true for my FR process!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Johndoe

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Flex, the poster states that he loses his erection immediately upon standing and the physician responds by stating his issues may be due venous leakage. I'm not particularly concerned about soft glans although the poster also mentions that as a symptom. Venous leakage caused by damage or plastic deformation of the tunica makes sense in context to the studies I posted. Not saying PE does this, but we do have some members complain about this issue after starting PE. In my opinion, DLD wasn't being "quirky" he more likely has a physiological problem. Those studies regarding gains are actually on the forum if you don't mind doing a little searching. Thanks for the hint regarding Thunders, I'm actually a member there too and find a lot of useful info.
 

flex

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The poster states that, plus several other symptoms, so it's completely unclear if the Dr. is referring to that symptom. Like I've said, I've seen posts by young guys complaining about this due to masturbation habits. Some even reported "training" themselves to be able to do it. It's also completely unclear exactly what DLD is referring to in that interview.

I certainly don't mind searching, but so far have only been able to find the two articles I referred to.

A vacuum device for penile elongation: fact or fiction? - AGHAMIR - 2006 - BJU International - Wiley Online Library

Peyronie's Disease: The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease