How common are permanent injuries?

[LostInTorture]

First to Newbert_Zero: anxiety makes the penis shrivel up as the blood retracts into your body to protect your heart and other vital organs, just like when it's cold outside (automatic mechanism of the body) so your case is likely to be 100% psychological.
As for the bitch that told you that stuff, here's the deal: when a girl is getting it on with a boy, and she realize he is not erect, she feels like there must be something wrong with her.
She is thinking in her head: "I COULDNT GET HIM HARD, AM I THAT UGLY?!?"
however she will never admit this, maybe not even to herself, denial is a human trait, a protective mechanism, so obviously she deflect her insecurities over at you.
Just let it go, my advice would be take viagra the first time you are going to have sex, just so you get it over with so you can live on.
Otherwise you may have this anxious situation fuck up your whole life.

Now onto dsmall

Again, this is why a newbie routine is recommended along with suggestions to watch PI's, but there is risk. Should you not jog because there is a remote risk, that's up to you. Should you not overdo it initially, obviously.

I only did the newbie routine, in a hot shower yet this occured.

Lost in torture, if you are the unlucky ones, there is nothing I can say; other than it does take a very long time, and you can start to see some sensation come back even after a year. The only way you can cause permanent damage is to sever the nerve. If you are getting erections, your nerve is not severed.

I'm sorry but my neurologist, urologist and several urologists and neurologists online DISAGREE.
Where did you get your degree in neuroscience?
You can get erections even if you severe nerves, people who are paralyzed get erections all the time without knowing it.
Also, yes you can permanently damage your nerves without severing them, you can crush them, bruise them etc. (like jelqing does)

My hypothesis is that you caused a severe sensory nerve injury which is healing very slowly together with some severe depression as indicated by your other personal issues that have occurred. if you are depressed, you can experience very suppressed sexual function which could be construed as almost total numbness. But again, if you were truly totally numb, then you would not be able to get any type of erection.

Again, no, there is NO psychological component to the numbness.
At the time this happened I was happy, in the most sexual relationship you can imagine, most men will never even get close to experience it other than watching porn.
That was how lucky I was, then this happened, I didn't freak out, I assumed it would heal, but even when I had nocturnal erections and my girlfriend was sucking my dick in my sleep. I could wake up and be like WTF I DONT FEEL ANYTHING ANYMORE.
And this was before I had even started thinking that this could be nerve damage, so no sorry your hypothesis has been disproved to the maximum.

There seem to be this extreme tendency on here and on thundersplace that EVERYTHING is psychological, sure in many cases where people have problem with getting erection, this is the case, but NEVER when it's about sensation.
Hell I can't even feel anything when I'm urinating...

I believe it's a subconscious protective mechanism everybody has, when someone get injured it's better to go into denial and try to find other excuses so you don't have to fear that you may die from this too.
Kind of reminds me of people experimenting with steroids, they will tell you that only people who use them wrong etc. will get harmed.
However there are quite a few cases where everything was done correctly, even with doctors administrating the doses etc. where people still fuckd up their own bodies.
And atleast steroids has been researched extensively by science for nearly 50 years.
PE has had about 1 serious study on a stretching device, that's it...
So please stop being so criminally ignorant...

Go see a therapist anyway since you are basically saying that you are suicidal; try some longer acting cialis, and work on your depression. Your sexual function is almost certain to come back.

My sexual function.. if by that you mean erection, sorry I have no erectile problems, as I have stated before you do not need sensory nerves to get erect.
A quick google search will reveal this to you.

As for the rest, no, I have concluded that a life without me being me would be worthless.
I applaud all the people who manage to go on and I ENCOURAGE ANYONE who has been affected as bad as me to live your life to the fullest.
But personally I know what I have to do, it's all subjective.

All I'm trying to say is that people need to be warned, as displayed in comments here and over at thunders again and again, 99,9% of the people believe injuries only happen to those who does extreme exercises or damage their penis to the point where blood is shooting out of it.
This is wrong, very wrong and it will continue to cost people their lives, in the literal sense and in the sense that the enjoyment of life is robbed of a person as soon as he lose sex.

 

[dsmall]

Now onto dsmall


I only did the newbie routine, in a hot shower yet this occured.

Yes, I have no way of disagreeing with you. As I said, a person can go out and take a very light jog and have a heart attack and die. In that situation, I would blame the latent heart defect rather than the jog.

I'm sorry but my neurologist, urologist and several urologists and neurologists online DISAGREE.
Where did you get your degree in neuroscience?

Again, I am not in your appointments so I don't know exactly what thy are saying to you. Physicians take a history, conduct and examination and use a differential diagnosis to arrive at a diagnosis, which means that they eliminate likely physical causes of your problem to arrive at a probable diagnosis. In your case, no physician has reached a diagnosis of your problem, i.e. a dorsal nerve injury. Accordingly, any reputable physician would merely state that the patient reports numbness of the penis--diagnosis undetermined. if a physician has been willing to share a tenative diagnosis, I haven't read it in any of your posts. What physicians can tell you is that antedotally some patients are reporting sensory loss and numbness following jelquing; btw, some patients report the same symptoms after vigourous intercourse or mastrabation. There are two aspects to your problem. First, the diagnosis, which you are basically saying is undetermined. The second is etiology, which is what caused it? It is very dificult for a physican to assign causation when he or she doesn't know the diagnosis. What you have is generalized numbess following a single reported injury.

For example, the physicians are not saying that it is a dorsal nerve injury. They are not saying that you injured the plexus of nerves in the pelvis. As to where I got my degree in neuroscience, I'm not trying to be hostile. Please don't be hostile in response. But this is basic science. What is your diagnosis? If the physicians don't have a diagnosis, then all they can do is eliminate likely diagnosis to try and form a hypothesis or tenative diagnosis. Absent a diagnosis, it's dificult to discuss causation. I would be interested in whether they conducted the following tests: bulbocavernosus reflex or pudendal nerve somatosensory evoked potentials. These tests investigate only large nerve fibers, although erection depends on autonomic nerve fibers, which are of small diameter; Penile thermal sensory testing. Warm and cold sensory fibers have similar calibers as the autonomic nerve fibers, and their integrity can be reliably evaluated by the measurement of thermal sensory thresholds. In other words, the working diagnosis would appear to be "penile neuropathy" and you can run certain tests to refine what exactly is the problem

You can get erections even if you severe nerves, people who are paralyzed get erections all the time without knowing it.

Not exactly. People who are paralyzed may have local nerves within the penis that work fine, but an interuption between the spine and the brain keeps them from feeling the sensation. If you had a spinal cord injury, or an injury to the nerve plexus within the pelvis, you would have bowel and bladder disfunction as well, and likely have erection problems. You are claiming a local injury to the penis, not a remote spinal cord injury. In other words, you are saying that your major and autonomic nerve fibers are fine. And remember, the autonomic nerve fibers responsible for an erection are very small in diameter. So, they are uninjured because you can get an erection. So, you theory is that the major nerves and autonomic nerves are fine but that all the sensory nerves that emenate from them are damaged. Again, anything is possible, but it is very close to being anotomically impossible.

Also, yes you can permanently damage your nerves without severing them, you can crush them, bruise them etc. (like jelqing does)

Well, that is a hypothesis. So, far, your physicians have not reached a diagnosis. And I would suggest that you conduct a Pub MEd search to find peer reviewed articles or case reports where people permanently damage sensory nerves without a complete severing of the nerves and where the small autonomic nerves are undamaged. if they exist, I'm not familiar with that type of problem. IOW, the area is completely innervated functionally, but sensory nerves are completely nonfunctional. The usual cause for various penile neuropathys is diabetes, hypertension, etc. It is almost always accompanied by ED. You don't have ED, you have total numbness. Again, it does not surprise me that your physicians have been unable to reach a physical diagnosis.

Again, no, there is NO psychological component to the numbness.

Well, a differential diagnosis would include Depression, which is a physical biochemical disease that can radically affect the way a person perceives pain and sensation. You certainly have described symptoms of secondary depression. In other words, you attribute the depression to the physical injury, but you admit that you have severe depression. Accordingly, a scientist utilizing a differential diagnosis would have to rule out depression as causing your current symptoms, because you suffer from depression--regardless of the precipitating event. It may be that you had a physical injury that caused a major depressive episode, and that your physical injury has slowly repaired but the depression has worsened to the point where the secondary event is now the primary cause of your symptoms. Regardless of the cause or sequence, you are currently suffering from major depression and should treat it.

At the time this happened I was happy, in the most sexual relationship you can imagine, most men will never even get close to experience it other than watching porn.

Right, and then you suffered what you considered to be a considerable physical setback which led to depression. You dropped out of school, etc; and you currently have generalized numbness with no diagnosis.

That was how lucky I was, then this happened, I didn't freak out, I assumed it would heal, but even when I had nocturnal erections and my girlfriend was sucking my dick in my sleep. I could wake up and be like WTF I DONT FEEL ANYTHING ANYMORE.

And numbness, insensitivity, disinterest in sex are all symptoms of major depression.

And this was before I had even started thinking that this could be nerve damage, so no sorry your hypothesis has been disproved to the maximum.

No, in order to disprove my hypothesis, you would have to be evaluated by a competent mental health practitioner and rule out depression. It is unlikely that depression can be ruled out because you admit that you are currently depressed. I'm suggesting that you treat the depression. If, after the depression is adequately controlled and treated, you still have these physical problems, then I would be more convinced that your problem was exclusively physical.

There seem to be this extreme tendency on here and on thundersplace that EVERYTHING is psychological, sure in many cases where people have problem with getting erection, this is the case, but NEVER when it's about sensation.
Hell I can't even feel anything when I'm urinating...

I can't speak for Thundersplace, but there seems to be a generalized feeling that depression is some voluntary feeling that is all in your head. it's not. Depression is a serious biochemical illness that causes real physical symptoms and illness. it is no less real that it may be emanating from chemicals in your brain than if it was being caused by a spinal cord injury. Depression can be triggered by events that some might find relatively innocuous. it appears as though your first major episode was in late adolescence which is fairly typical. The prejudice against mental illness is so significant that people would rather find some obscure physical basis for their symptoms, rather than at least explore the possibility that it could be a biochemical reaction that happens to come from your brain.

I believe it's a subconscious protective mechanism everybody has, when someone get injured it's better to go into denial and try to find other excuses so you don't have to fear that you may die from this too.
Kind of reminds me of people experimenting with steroids, they will tell you that only people who use them wrong etc. will get harmed.

That is one theory. And it is true that people always look at a situation and say, "this can't happen to me because I do [something different]" or "this person brought it on themselves." And you can get real injuries from PE, exercise, and most activities in life. If you had a physical diagnosis, then you can talk about causation. Again, you are positing a Zebra in Texas, which is that you have a physical problem that is basically never been reported in peer reviewed medical literature. I am positing a horse, which is that you did suffer a fairly common physical injury, which was localized bruising and injury to the sensory nerves of the penis which triggered a major depressive episode. You have not treated, nor are you willing to explore treatment for major depression, even though you are clearly suffering from physical symptoms which can be explained by major depression.

However there are quite a few cases where everything was done correctly, even with doctors administrating the doses etc. where people still fuckd up their own bodies.

Again, the diagnosis and injury mechanism are fairly well established. In your case, no doctor has even reached a diagnosis.

And atleast steroids has been researched extensively by science for nearly 50 years.
PE has had about 1 serious study on a stretching device, that's it...
So please stop being so criminally ignorant...

Very unlikely. Any weekly rundown of ER visits will show that humans have an incredible imagination for injuring their penises in very extreme ways, including jelqing, vacuum cleaners, etc. These injuries have been studied far longer than steroids, and physicians have a fairly well established knowledge of how the penis is innervated; and how it recovers from even severe injury, i.e. a complete severing of the nerves.

My sexual function.. if by that you mean erection, sorry I have no erectile problems, as I have stated before you do not need sensory nerves to get erect.
A quick google search will reveal this to you.

As for the rest, no, I have concluded that a life without me being me would be worthless.
I applaud all the people who manage to go on and I ENCOURAGE ANYONE who has been affected as bad as me to live your life to the fullest.
But personally I know what I have to do, it's all subjective.

All I'm trying to say is that people need to be warned, as displayed in comments here and over at thunders again and again, 99,9% of the people believe injuries only happen to those who does extreme exercises or damage their penis to the point where blood is shooting out of it.
This is wrong, very wrong and it will continue to cost people their lives, in the literal sense and in the sense that the enjoyment of life is robbed of a person as soon as he lose sex.

Again, if you read this carefully, it is evident that you suffer from major depression and need treatment, irrespective of any physical problem you may have with your penis. If, after treatment, you still have these physical problems, you can come back and crow about how I am an idiot and know nothing. If, you treat the depression, and you start to recover physical perception and feeling, I'm not seeing how anybody wins or loses here. Your life improves; and maybe I get to feel better because someone is helped. It is a total win/win situation.

 

[dsmall]

Again, Lost, I'm not trying to call you out, but patient history is very important to physicians. In looking back at your posts, your history does change a bit:

First Post:

Hi,

I started PE'ing 2 years ago, never saw any results, all I ever got was bruises that still haven't left the skin of my penis.
One night 1 year ago, I was doing PE and Edging and either the jelqing or edging somehow left me very numb/no feeling in penis.

So, the actual history is that you were engaged in PE for a year that was vigorous enough to cause chronic bruising that still persists for over a year. Again, you are describing PE'ing and engaging in the newbie routine for one whole year --despite no gains--and bruising your penis. I was under the impression that you tried PE once, did the newbie routine and all these problems started. IMHO, the bruising and negative growth were significant PIs that persisted for almost a year before you suffered an injury.

The in office doctor's test is usually one that is somewhat subjective. It's like a hearing test where you advise the doctor of whether you can feel something or not. Ask a doctor for the tests I referenced above, they can test function a bit more objectively; and give him or her an accurate history, which is that you were engaging in very vigorous activity for a year, vigorous enough to cause chronic bruising.

So actually the lesson for pe'ers is to not engage in PE if it is causing chronic bruising, no gains after a year because it can cause permanent penile numbness. And if you are watching PI's, the total absence of growth is also significant.

As far as treatment plan, people who suffer from major spinal cord injuries with total loss of function go on to live productive happy lives. Assuming that you have ruled out all physical problems and there is no treatment, then the best approach is to work on the depression. Again, I would hold out hope for you that the depression treatment may very well help with pleasure perception. If you want to consider the situation more hopeless, I guess that is your prerogative.

 

[CUSP82]

Boys this is a real interesting discussion; let's just make sure we stick to the facts and not get into any snide comments towards one another.Others may learn quite a bit from this thread so let's keep it on topic and be "nice"!

 

[dsmall]

Boys this is a real interesting discussion; let's just make sure we stick to the facts and not get into any snide comments towards one another.Others may learn quite a bit from this thread so let's keep it on topic and be "nice"!

Agreed. Putting aside all the back and forth, he can test whether his sensory nerves function fairly easy. Take a very fine soldering iron end (or flame) and place it on his penis. If he is truly numb, he won't feel it. Most smart neurologist who handle very complex mixtures of psychological and physical pain syndromes will eventually resort to this test, or a similar measure, rather than the vibratory test that requires patient's subjective input. Most patients will say, "no thanks" or come up with an excuse as to why they will feel heat. My hypothesis is that he would feel a flame or hot soldering iron, which suggests that his sensory nerves function just fine. IMHO, he is describing a condition that is not anatomically possible. The depression sounds severe and he needs treatment.

I'm not trying to be snide.

 

[biff7686]

Agreed. Putting aside all the back and forth, he can test whether his sensory nerves function fairly easy. Take a very fine soldering iron end (or flame) and place it on his penis. If he is truly numb, he won't feel it. Most smart neurologist who handle very complex mixtures of psychological and physical pain syndromes will eventually resort to this test, or a similar measure, rather than the vibratory test that requires patient's subjective input. Most patients will say, "no thanks" or come up with an excuse as to why they will feel heat. My hypothesis is that he would feel a flame or hot soldering iron, which suggests that his sensory nerves function just fine. IMHO, he is describing a condition that is not anatomically possible. The depression sounds severe and he needs treatment.

I'm not trying to be snide.

This type of test doesn't mean his sensory nerves are perfectly normal, but it does show the major nerves are not severed. I am having similar symptoms to LostinTorture and I believe my issues are related to nerve entrapment. I believe his issues are related to nerve entrapment as well. With nerve entrapment, I feel there is hope because if the nerve becomes untrapped then I feel sensation should normalize.

Regardless though, I do agree with you he does need help with his depression.

 

[Newbert_zero]

Um how is he supposed to not be depressed when he has no sensation in his dick?

 

[CUSP82]

Because there is more to life than a dick!

 

[frb3]

To the Originator

To the Originator

Keep in mind what the famous philosopher Yogi Berra once said:

When you come to a fork in the road take it.

 

[Newbert_zero]

Because there is more to life than a dick!

Easy to say when yours is fully functional. Sure there's more to it then having a dick but it's a huuuge part of life.

 

[LostInTorture]

Actually most of the people on here with your fucking hypothesis bullshit, STFU.
It amazes me to see worthless atoms assembled in such a way that you can actually type the bullshit u type....
"The condition he describes is anatomically impossible"
OH sh*t, no sensation in any part of the body is impossible? HOLY sh*t
Your too stupid to be taking part of ANY discussion, _EVER_.

People like you make PE dangerous.

The depression was something that eventually came on WAY after the damage was already done.
At first I thought it would heal 100% genuinly not freaking out at all.
Yet no change in sensation.
Then they tested it and confirmed that there is a SEVERE loss of sensation, but hey, they just went to school for 20 years, I guess they dont have a fuckin clue what they are talking about.
You however, a internet geek you know everything.
A paralyzed person? WTF THAT IS ANATOMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, BECAUSE I CAN WALK THEN YOU CAN TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!FUCK YOURSELf

 

[NP97]

Tone it back a bit guys.

 

[NP97]

PE is NOT dangerous by the way. Not that many people have been injured. Many injuries are in people's heads. Not saying yours are, but I'm just stating a fact. Many are fake and are just trolls seeking attention.
Most injuries are temporary... Permanent ones are NOT common.
What generally happens with longer lasting injuries is someone overdoes it. Even a newbie routine can be too much for some people. sh*t, I started off with doing only 25 jelqs per hand a day for a couple weeks. Staying mostly flaccid too.
Anyway, they overdo it... something is wrong, then the brain takes over and freaks out. That only makes things worse.

Only point of my post is to say Perma-injures are not common at all. Neither are injuries in general. People just need to learn to take it easy.

 

[JonPop]

LostInTorture, one more outburst like that an you WILL be banned.
You have been offered some very heartfelt advice here and refuse to listen.
All you want to do is argue. This forum is not a place that tolerates trolls.
You have been warned. (jP

 

[LostInTorture]

What you percieve as "heartfelt" advice I percieve as chronic denial and almost mocking of people who really suffer.
How can a moderator state "PE IS NOT DANGEROUS" ?
PE is dangerous, even if only 1% of the people doing it gets hurt, that still means, yes it is dangerous...

"Injuries" like not getting an erection because you obsess over it, sure that's in your head.
Lack of sensation which your neurologist has confirmed, IS NOT IN YOUR HEAD.

It's very very very simple and it amazes me how I, the person who has been suffering with this for so long accept that, while idiots on here who HAS A FUNCITONING PENIS still denies that it's "ANATOMICALLY POSSIBLE".

That's like telling a cancer patient who has accepted his fate, that "no it's not physically possible to have cancer, it's all in your head".

PE is dangerous make no mistake about it...
That is the whole reason I still has cared to answer people on here in both PM's and in this forum.
If you believe it's not, please do me the favour of checking out the urologist and neurologist sections of different forums online and see how many has got their life completley fuckedup by PE.

 

[Pegasus]

The extremely rare injuries I have heard of, are caused by guys not having access to a forum like this, or not heeding advice, they then do something mind-blowingly stupid and usually recover fine.
Lots of bad injuries happen from sport, including death, the idea is to train in such a way as to minimize risk.

 

[LostInTorture]

If you read some more you'll see that a lot of injuries are actually caused by nothing more than jelqing.
People are different, very different and we do not know enough about the penis to say it's safe at all.
Hell a recent study (2005) showed that the common "2 dorsal nerves" pictuer we all have is false, some has just 1 some have 7..

 

[Pegasus]

I have been at this long enough, to know most serious injuries are the invention of trolls .
You seem to suggest we do not know enough about the penis to use it. This is foolish in the extreame, perhaps we don't know enough about legs we should stop walking.

 

[JonPop]

So, LostInTorture you are telling us that the few simple PE strokes that you did, caused you all this grief?
If you had used these same simple strokes with the intention of masturbating and had the same thing happen, that you would be telling us that masturbation is dangerous and no one should ever do it?

I think the whole point of your being here is to argue. Pure and simple.
We very much have tried to answer any of your questions. We have tried to give you the best advice we can. This is not good enough for you. You continue your tirade and I cannot see any reason to continue keeping you as a member of the PE Gym.
I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope you find the answers somewhere, or at least peace in your life. (jP

 

[redbear52]

I agree with NP97 and Pegasus that severe PE-induced permanent injuries are rare. Lesser injuries like superficial thrombosed veins and discoloration (often permanent) are not.

I have read enough accounts from individuals who claim to have developed penile insensitivity, venous leak, the "hard flaccid" syndrome, and the "soft glans" syndrome to come to the conclusion that at least some of them must be factual and not fabricated, however. One problem is that erectile dysfunction is relatively common, and is far from rare even in younger men. It is often hard to know if ED that develops while practicing PE is actually caused by PE, or coincident to it.

I do believe that some individuals probably have developed severe erectile dysfunction or diminished penile sensitivity as a result of PE but I think this is a very uncommon event. I strongly suspect that many of the injury reports have been fabricated for the purpose of stirring up sh*t, and Lost in Torture's tendency to repeatedly become extremely caustic to anyone who tried to offer helpful advice leads me to believe that he probably was one of those individuals, i.e, a troll.

He makes the point that PE is dangerous because some individuals have sustained permanent injury through it. I suppose that could be considered a valid point. Many thousands of individuals have died or been maimed in automobile accidents, so automobiles could be considered extraordinarily dangerous, yet most of us get in one every day, or nearly every day. Penile fracture is a known potential complication of sexual intercourse, and can result in severe ED even if promptly treated. So by the same token, having sex could be considered a dangerous endeavor.

I think it is prudent for anyone considering PE to peruse the injury/ED subforums on this, and other PE forums first, and make their own assessment of the potential risk.