Healthcare Bill

[CUSP82]

It was obvious from all the non-politcal polls done in this country that at least 50% of this country did not want the needed health care reform in this manner. No one on the oppostion side said that health care reform was not needed; just not in this manner. In a country where the majority rules but with compassion for the minority, shouldn't a leader, like a president, knowing what the feeling of the country is, come out and work for real health care reform that not only will help the people without health counrty but that the rest of the nation can support? I am sure that if our elected leaders sat down as people, not as democrats or republicans, they could in time figure out a good solution that would work and be acceptable to a vast majority of the country. What we got this time was a plan based solely on what one particular party wanted, not the people. They ought to be ashamed of themselves and all of us should realize that we have a democrat in the white house and not a president. A president should represent us all! And if you California guys re-elect Nancy Pelosi, although I would never wish harm on anyone, well I do hope that the big one hits and you can drift off with her!

 

[Radiohead]

Hey guys,

I'm Canadian. In fact, you can even call me an ignorant Canadian. I dont know what the healthcare reform is all about. I'm too lazy to read up about it.

As a matter of fact, all I know about the current American healthcare system is: if you have money, you live. If you dont have money, you die. Pharmaceutical companies make billions of dollars off of sick people that cannot afford the over-priced cost of healthcare and medication.

In Canada, everything is free. If you're in a car accident and you start hemorrhaging in your brain, you will get surgery and follow up treatment for free, then you walk out of there. Immediate life threatening conditions/accidents get treated immediately.

However if you need a more longterm type of treatment, then you will see the flaws of the healthcare system. It may take up to 6 months to see a specialist because we're short on doctors and nurses (underpaid staff and medical schools are over packed, which is not good enough for this country).

95% of medication here is FREE and covered by healthcare.

Would anybody care to explain what exactly is the healthcare reform all about? Sorry I'm lazy to google it.

 

[JonnyBoy2]

The actuality of National Health Care is in reality Limited Health Care.....

To explain in short summary. Their was no reason to bring everyone in the country on board the Plan. Just Insure the 40 million that don't have it. It would be easier to implement and less costly. All they wanted to do in "round one" was just get it passed and everyone on the plan. After that they will twist it to what was originally envisioned. Which will take a decade of amending the original Law. As for the standoff for taxpayer funded abortion, this will be passed and implemented. The model to which we will follow is "China's Model".

Mark my words, within the decade, when there is no turning back. You will wonder what happened to the Processes and Choices.

One last thought....read this link completely through FIRST. Otherwise the Slideshow will scare you. Then ponder why the worlds Cultures follow the mythology so closely. Judges where black etc. It even writes of a festival of giving gifts. Please click on the hyperlinks to really tie it all in. Welcome to the Century of Change. It is just beginning. =/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(mythology)

YouTube - The Mystery Hexagon on SATURN

This last link doesn't hold back, it cycles through ancient history to present day. It encompasses all religions, which shows you throughout the entire presentation. Very Informitive, you may want to mute though.

YouTube - Saturnalian Cult revealed pt.1/12 - Hexagram Star/666

I feel like your post meant nothing. Not even really sure what you are saying? You said a bunch of random things that really don't explain what we are talking about

 

[Betterman]

I feel like your post meant nothing. Not even really sure what you are saying? You said a bunch of random things that really don't explain what we are talking about

I'm Sorry.

 

[JonnyBoy2]

I'm Sorry.

lol it's alright man I just did not understand what you were trying to say.

 

[Aguares]

This has so many ways of looking at it. Other countries have socialized health care and, there is a reason they flee to the US when it comes, to getting serious surgeries. One can look at the fact that, yes. Prices should come down eventually. However, so will the level of care. The money that is spent isn't all fluff. Doctors put them selves in debt for half their adult lives to do this kind work. Some even never make it out of debt. As a result of socialized health care, doctors won't make nearly as much. The level of care will decrease. Less incentive will be given to new doctors so, fewer will even bother to go through the years of school/training or debt that incurs. Many will die all the same except now, it will be in waiting for their surgeries.

It has been asked what makes it Unconstitutional. Well, I can say this. It takes away rights of Americans. I can know longer choose to NOT get insurance if I feel. Although, that was never an intelligent way to live but, the choice is there if I wanted.

I can no longer choose to pay out of pocket for my care. I'll never understand this one. If I could afford to do such, I would. Once again, that choice is no longer available to the people.

Freedoms are being removed. I'll never support anything that removes rights from the people.

 

[Pegasus]

It.s best not to try and understand betterman at first meeting, his seeming radomness will spark thought processes after many meetings.

 

[Rubirosa]

Hey fellas, glad there's some like-minded libertarian folks on this forum. This health care bill won't stand. I don't see how you could possibly say that forcing people to buy health insurance from private insurers is constitutional. A lot of the ignoramuses in Washington right now clearly don't even know what the constitution IS. But that's not even the point. They've unwittingly awakened the beast. . .

I've become extremely politically active lately. I was always politically aware, but this is the first time I've actually started canvassing neighborhoods, educating people, organizing volunteers and backing conservative-libertarian type candidates for elected office. We live in a time when drastically cutting all government services and bringing troops home from military outposts around the world (the libertarian message in a few words) is the only thing that will help us balance the budget and preserve our freedom. Trouble is, if we're not careful, we're gonna' elect a bunch of big government republicans again like who will abuse the constitution in their own way (think No Child Left Behind, unconstitutional, undeclared wars, expansion of Medicaid etc.) We need to all get involved to make sure this doesn't happen.

I have to say I've had a LOT of fun doing this kind of work and I find it SUPREMELY satisfying because I get to be the one to step between my country and the heathens who are ruining it. It satisfies the Samuel Adams in me.

Anyway, if you're interested, I am coordinator for a grassroots organization called Campaign for Liberty (campaignforliberty.com). You could do the same. There are chapters all over the country. It's easy to link up with other like-minded folks through the website if you sign up. It's free. Also, head over to your Republican and Democratic Town Committees and talk some sense into these people. Some older republicans tend to be hawkish about war, but we really can't afford to elect hawkish republicans anymore. And we definitely can't afford to elect republicans who don't understand how the Federal Reserve is an instrument established by the super-rich in order to serruptitiously rob the American people.

If you're not sold on some of this stuff, I've literally spent hours reading up on these issues and I can tell you that these are the things that are killing this country. The Federal Reserve is public enemy number one. But there are republicans who will say we need the Federal Reserve and it was established to put an end to the boom and bust nature of our economical cycle and to safeguard the value of our money. Well guess what. The value of our money has declined 95% since the inception of the Fed in 1913 and it was only twenty some off years after it was established that we had the Great Depression and now we're about to have the Greatest Depression. We're seriously on the brink and we're gonna' have to go through some pain. But let's make sure we know WHY it happened so we can ensure it doesn't happen again.

Right now, I'm supporting two candidates. One is Peter Schiff, who's running as a republican for Senate in the state of Connecticut. We need for him to win the primary against two unprincipled hacks first and then we can take the election against Blumenthal. But Peter Schiff is a great communicator and he explains our economic situation and problem very well. Go to Youtube and type in Peter Schiff and you'll find literalyl hundreds of videos of him on financial news channels telling guys they don't know what they're talking about. The other guy is Jim Russel, who is running for Congress in my district against a Democratic incumbent Nita Lowey. They're both smart, principled guys and they NEED to get elected. Period.

Anyway, I urge you guys to do the same in your district so we don't have a repeat of the past 10 years, which is in all liklihood very possible considering not many people know about the real source of our economic problems.

I would also read every Ron Paul book you can find and anything on Austrian economics, which was the only economic theory to predict our current situation and which I find to be very accurate.

Best,

Rubirosa

 

[Pirate]

A number of posts have made reference to getting health care, or medical attention/services, free. No system provides for free benefits. They just have different means of distributing the costs and the services. Someone always pays the costs and it is not the government or an insurance company. Under any system, people pay.
The government does not generate earn income, it can only tax people, print currency (which devalues every one's savings), or deficit spend (which is spending future taxes.) Insurance companies, like all companies, are simply the investments of people (IRAs, savings plans, pension plans, college funds, personal savings, and so.) So having companies pay is simply a way of taxing those who has invested in those companies.
I am an owner in my company. Making my company pay for the health care of strangers, however indirectly, means that I will have to work longer before I can retire, will have less time with my family, will have a harder time paying for my kids' education, and generally will have harder time providing for those I care about most. And all so that a colossal bureaucracy, enacted by people who haven't read the bill, made up of people that i neither know nor trust and who respond to the whims of whatever political party happens to be in power at the moment, can make life or death decisions about my family and my employees.

Sorry for the long post. This is scary stuff for me.

 

[Waylander]

A number of posts have made reference to getting health care, or medical attention/services, free. No system provides for free benefits. They just have different means of distributing the costs and the services. Someone always pays the costs and it is not the government or an insurance company. Under any system, people pay.
The government does not generate earn income, it can only tax people, print currency (which devalues every one's savings), or deficit spend (which is spending future taxes.) Insurance companies, like all companies, are simply the investments of people (IRAs, savings plans, pension plans, college funds, personal savings, and so.) So having companies pay is simply a way of taxing those who has invested in those companies.
I am an owner in my company. Making my company pay for the health care of strangers, however indirectly, means that I will have to work longer before I can retire, will have less time with my family, will have a harder time paying for my kids' education, and generally will have harder time providing for those I care about most. And all so that a colossal bureaucracy, enacted by people who haven't read the bill, made up of people that i neither know nor trust and who respond to the whims of whatever political party happens to be in power at the moment, can make life or death decisions about my family and my employees.

Sorry for the long post. This is scary stuff for me.

Pirate, this is a well thought out and completly rational post :thumb:. You have described the fears that alot of us small buisness owners have. Well done sir.

 

[Fli-Fisher]

Please describe what he did?
As far as the whole disagreement about government intervention not being necessary, explain that to the many people who've been bent over a table and raped by the private insurance companies. This country will never become socialist country because socialism doesn't work. Now citizens with terrible insurance won't have to go to Cuba, which is extremely poor, to get medicine. I don't agree with everything in the bill but it is a step in the right direction.
What happens to the person who disagrees with universal health care when they get a serious illness that the insurance company isn't willing to cover?

The 10th Amendment SPECIFICALLY states that... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved for the states respectively, or to the people... Not one single word in the Constitution does it say health care is suppose to be run by the Federal Government. So under the Constitutional 10th amendment that right is reserved for the stated or the people... Thus making it UNCONSTITUTIONAL... Now There is one argument that Progressives (Democrats) use all the time and it is the General Welfare clause, which was added to the constitution later under the taxing and spending clause by Progressives... Which in by itself is ridiculous because it is left open as to what the government can do... Because the REAL WAY the Constitution is laid out, it is specifically restricting the government not expanding it. That is why choosing a President is so important because they choose the supreme court justices, and if a justice thinks that the constitution is an ever changing document subject to the whim of the people, and what they want, they can change the meaning of it through court rulings.

Did you read my reply on the 4th page about my surgery??? I saved money by not having insurance. I have talked to countless people who are in the same boat. All this is doing is rewarding laziness as with 90% of the Progressives ideas... I was able to save money so I could pay for it on my own... Now I am forced to supplement someone who just wants to get knocked up and live on welfare their whole life. Sorry for the rant at the end, I volunteer at night to do taxes for low income families and it drives me insane how many times I have had someone come in with 3 kids, lives on social security and demands that I get them a huge refund because they are ENTITLED to it. Only to have them bring their parents in the next week and find out their on social security also.

EDIT: After reading that it seemed like a huge bashing on Democrats... Republicans are just as much at fault were our country is today. That's why everyone should be forced to take a class on The Federalist Papers and restore our country to the way it was founded so everyone can live the way that want and get rid of the bi-partisan bickering.

 

[dick-a-dee]

As a Canadian I can tell you, we love our health care system, EVERY Canadian has a right to medical care in our country, and I can get the same care as the richest man or woman. In fact you know who was voted the greatest Canadian of all time in our country? It was the man brought in our health care system.
It is a nice feeling to know that ALL of my family, my children, my children's children and so on will all have a right to proper health care, regardless if they are upper or middle or lower class.

 

[Rasputine]

When a dictators,(Castro) applauds what Obama has done that says it all.

 

[Going411x7]

I have always said we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. And you have to be awfully brave to live here.

 

[frb3]

As a Canadian I can tell you, we love our health care system, EVERY Canadian has a right to medical care in our country, and I can get the same care as the richest man or woman. In fact you know who was voted the greatest Canadian of all time in our country? It was the man brought in our health care system.
It is a nice feeling to know that ALL of my family, my children, my children's children and so on will all have a right to proper health care, regardless if they are upper or middle or lower class.

If this be so, why are there so many clinics along the US Canadian border treating Canadians fleeing this wonderful system. Buffalo, Clayton, and Plattsburg NY have growth industries treating these people. While I have no proof am sure this is the case all along the Candian frontier. Secondly you have a doctor shortage, caused by your system, there was a stampede of doctors coming to the US and other countries when this law was passed. Third it is eating your budget alive, for second class medical care. As to greatest Canadian of all times, keep in mind there are still people that think Marx was a great man, Karl not Groucho. My fathers family left Canada in 1813, none to soon.

 

[Waylander]

As a Canadian I can tell you, we love our health care system, EVERY Canadian has a right to medical care in our country, and I can get the same care as the richest man or woman."


Curiously, our rich and powerfull leaders in congress are exempt from the new government run health care option.
That's awfully convenient!

 

[dick-a-dee]

If this be so, why are there so many clinics along the US Canadian border treating Canadians fleeing this wonderful system. Buffalo, Clayton, and Plattsburg NY have growth industries treating these people. While I have no proof am sure this is the case all along the Candian frontier. Secondly you have a doctor shortage, caused by your system, there was a stampede of doctors coming to the US and other countries when this law was passed. Third it is eating your budget alive, for second class medical care. As to greatest Canadian of all times, keep in mind there are still people that think Marx was a great man, Karl not Groucho. My fathers family left Canada in 1813, none to soon.

My father had colon cancer, when he was feeling he had problems, called his doctor went in for a check up, he was booked for tests like that week, got test results back and was booked for surgery like the following week, and while they were operating on his cancer they fixed his hernia at the same time. He had some kemo after that, and he is now compleatly free of cancer, and he never paid a dime. Yes their are some bad areas of the country where the medical might not be as good, just like I'm sure the same can be said about the U.S. like maybe they can't do brain surgery in Alaska so maybe they have to fly them to California (just an example) If their are areas that they can't get the treatment they may have to go to other areas, but they don't have to leave the country to get treatment. I have a friend she was an american living in Canada, she got breast cancer so she decided to get her treatments in the U.S. because she thought it would be better, and now she is dead. I have another friend who got breast cancer who got treated here in town and she is cancer free. In fact I know a lot of people who have cancer and other illnesses that are getting treatment and are doing just fine. Not all treatments are curable no matter what country you live in. I can tell you though that we have some of the top surgens in the world, and we have many people who come from all over the world for their help.
Yes many of our doctors have moved to the U.S. (the ones who want to get rich) the doctors who want to help people have stayed behind (these are the doctors I prefer).

Why does America not want to take care of your sick and dying? Your country is one of the most charitable nations in the world taking of care many other countries sick and dying, but not your own. I would rather give to our sick, dying and poor before any other country.

As for your remark about our nation choosing this great man, and comparing it to choosing one of the Marx brothers, clearly shows your ignorance. I'm sure at the time we had a lot of people who did not want this health care system, but now (not fearing the unknown) CANADIANS WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO A PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, and as a nation after living with this health care system (having experienced both ways) have voted this man who brought us this system as a national hero.

 

[frb3]

My father had colon cancer, when he was feeling he had problems, called his doctor went in for a check up, he was booked for tests like that week, got test results back and was booked for surgery like the following week, and while they were operating on his cancer they fixed his hernia at the same time. He had some kemo after that, and he is now compleatly free of cancer, and he never paid a dime. Yes their are some bad areas of the country where the medical might not be as good, just like I'm sure the same can be said about the U.S. like maybe they can't do brain surgery in Alaska so maybe they have to fly them to California (just an example) If their are areas that they can't get the treatment they may have to go to other areas, but they don't have to leave the country to get treatment. I have a friend she was an american living in Canada, she got breast cancer so she decided to get her treatments in the U.S. because she thought it would be better, and now she is dead. I have another friend who got breast cancer who got treated here in town and she is cancer free. In fact I know a lot of people who have cancer and other illnesses that are getting treatment and are doing just fine. Not all treatments are curable no matter what country you live in. I can tell you though that we have some of the top surgens in the world, and we have many people who come from all over the world for their help.
Yes many of our doctors have moved to the U.S. (the ones who want to get rich) the doctors who want to help people have stayed behind (these are the doctors I prefer).

Why does America not want to take care of your sick and dying? Your country is one of the most charitable nations in the world taking of care many other countries sick and dying, but not your own. I would rather give to our sick, dying and poor before any other country.

As for your remark about our nation choosing this great man, and comparing it to choosing one of the Marx brothers, clearly shows your ignorance. I'm sure at the time we had a lot of people who did not want this health care system, but now (not fearing the unknown) CANADIANS WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO A PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, and as a nation after living with this health care system (having experienced both ways) have voted this man who brought us this system as a national hero.

i am glad your father survived and was treated so rapidly. Having said that, you system is rationed, and you are short of doctors. We will be also short of doctors shortly because of the new system, if it goes into place. As to the two women you mention, it depends on the type of cancer in the breast. Some types are more aggressive than others. I am unable to understand why you feel people are dying here in the states due to lack of access to health insurance. If someone is dying it is due to their own ignorance. Mexican's regularly come across the border to drop babies in Texas hospitals, at no charge. Mexican Hospitals on the other hand charge two k for a kid and want the money up front.
You didn't respond to the reason d'erte for the clinics here in the states treating Canadians.

As to the Marx Brothers, Karl Marx wrote Das Capital the Communist Manifesto. Groucho was one of the Marx Brother comedy brothers. As to you greatest man in Canada a loud Bronx Cheer, and the same for Obama and his Healthcare Deform.

 

[Pirate]

"Why does America not want to take care of your sick and dying? Your country is one of the most charitable nations in the world taking of care many other countries sick and dying, but not your own. I would rather give to our sick, dying and poor before any other country. "
It is not a question of whether we want to take care of those who need it. It is a question of how to do it. Many of us are, for a variety of reasons, not comfortable with the federal government in that role

 

[dick-a-dee]

Perhaps the stories I've heard about american's not getting treated because they do not have health insurance, or that the insuance companies do not cover some people are not true. No Canadian is refused health care. As for Canadians going elsewere to receive treatment, well it's a free country and they're free to do as they choose, just like the Americans who have come here to receive health care. Saying that our country has second class medical care, is like me saying America has second class medical care. My referance to my friend going to the U.S. to get treatment and dying, was not to say the U.S. is bad, and Canada good, it was to say that it is no better, no worst. Many of our doctors who have moved to the U.S. and treat you Americans have the same education as the ones who stay and treat us Canadians. You say you that you will lose many of your doctors because of the new system. Where are they going to go? Canada? Not when this cold weather hits their ass. Most Canadians that moved to the U.S. is to escape our cold winter weather. This is why Vancouver, the only mild weather in Canada, is the most expensive place in the world to live.

I have to talk about another comment you made about how our health care system is eating up our budget. Before the world's economy came crashing down our country was in a surpluss(a couple years ago). Our budget has gone more into creating more jobs, and things like the war in Afganastan.