Biden?

[CUSP82]

Some of the Harris policies I recall include:

Tax breaks for middle income families to be paid for by taxes on billionaires

increase tax deduction for small business start ups.

increase the child care tax credit

Iax breaks for builders for first time buyers

Lower prescription drug costs

Maintain Social Security and Medicare benefits

Reintroduce the bipartisan border plan

As well as controversial plans for restricting the ownership of automatic weapons and maintaining women’s rights to decide what is best for their bodies, including preserving IVF.

Plus others I can’t recall off hand

She nevers mentions how'll she'll do it; no specifics but it sounds good

 

[Johnny D]

She nevers mentions how'll she'll do it; no specifics but it sounds good

That's a politician for ya

 

[not2big]

She mentions specific targets for increasing/reducing taxes and providing tax credits. Agree or not, she specifically mentioned representing the bipartisan border legislation, among others.

Other than proposing mass deportation (without explaining how) investigation of political opponents, and no taxes on tips, what has Trump specifically proposesed?

 

[CUSP82]

We all saw what Trump did in 4 years; secure border, low inflation, good energy prices, tax cuts for all, the world in relative peace.
Now under Biden/Harris we have an unsecured border, high prices, inflation,more crime and the world about to explode; I know you don't see the difference.
Now for that border bill you love so much which was announced in Feb of this year; why did we need that. They told us the border was secure for 3 1/2 years so why did we need this bill, which is useless by the way

 

[not2big]

If you check, you will find border crossing started to increase during the end of Trump’s administration as did inflation as a result of uncontrolled Covid under Trump and the creation of the deficit to the highest level in history. Also, the crime rate has been significant.y redoused under the Biden Administration

Biden had nothing to do with the conflicts inthe Middle East and has tried to negotiate for peace. I believe the Biden Administration never proclaimed the border was secure but did delay in advocating for the bipartisan border agreement, which Trump torpedoed in order to use as a political stand for his campaign. The leading Republican supporter believed it was the best border legislation in decades.

Energy prices have been significant.y reduced since U.S. oil production has reach an all time high. Yesterday I paid $2.83 for a gallon of gas. Oil/gas prices are controlled more by OPC tha the U.S. we als have the lowest inflator.o and the strongest economy than of the developed countries.

 

[BigO]

The border is the worst it's ever been, gas is outrageous, food prices have skyrocketed, the economy sucks, inflation is out of control and it's all much worse than when the sleepy one and the whore rook the Whitehouse

 

[Johnny D]

Protectionism and tariffs will only exacerbate the situation. The White House can't set the rate of inflation or determine the cost of my groceries, but they can enact or remove policies that affect supply. And, of course, they can stop spending tons of money. Neither side has outlined any plans to do so, however.

The border issue is a bit of a red herring. We need immigration but our border policy makes legal immigration very difficult. Here's a great read from the Cato Institute (some think they're a conservative think tank but I find them to be quite fair). It's lengthy but very informative and it outlines the importance of immigration for our economy.

 

[not2big]

High tarrifs on a broad spectrum of imported products will have a devastating effect on the economy. Tariffs are not paid by the importer, but are passed on to the consumer like sales taxes in the form of higher prices, especially effecting middle and lower income families - very inflationary. US tariffs imposed in 2018 and 2019 were almost entirely passed on to US consumers, resulting in higher prices and reduced export growth. Recent evidence indicates the US tariffs imposed in 2018 and 2019 were almost entirely passed on to US consumers, resulting in higher prices and reduced export growth.

 

[CUSP82]

So let's all keep buying cheap foreign stuff and put Americans out of work which will be great for the economy
Now when Harris increases the corporate tax rate which is always passed on to the consumers meaning things will cost more does that ruin the economy as well? Can you explain why tariffs will ruin the economy but higher taxes won't?

 

[not2big]

Corporate tax rates are not always passed on to consumers, but are often resulting in reducing corporate profits which effect corporate investors..

let’s let the countries who are capable of more effectively producing lower priced products while the U.S. Concentrates on producing produCT’s it can produce more effectively at competitive prices. This way the world andThe U.S. benefits from the most effective products.

The competitive advantage theory attempts to stress maximizing scale economies in goods and services that garner premium prices. Competitive advantage occurs when an organization acquires or develops an attribute or combination of attributes that allows it to outperform its competitors. Everyone enjoys the results of competitive advantage. In other words a country should focus on what it can produce and export relatively the cheapest—thus if one country has a competitive advantage in producing both products A & B, it should only produce product A if it can do it better than B and import B from some other country.

 

[BigO]

Protectionism and tariffs will only exacerbate the situation. The White House can't set the rate of inflation or determine the cost of my groceries, but they can enact or remove policies that affect supply. And, of course, they can stop spending tons of money. Neither side has outlined any plans to do so, however.

The border issue is a bit of a red herring. We need immigration but our border policy makes legal immigration very difficult. Here's a great read from the Cato Institute (some think they're a conservative think tank but I find them to be quite fair). It's lengthy but very informative and it outlines the importance of immigration for our economy.

The Whitehouse is directly involved in inflation. If money is printed without backing, that is inflation.

If you have 100 dollars worth of gold and you print 100 dollars, the dollar is strong. If you have no more gold and print another 100 dollars, the dollar value drops in half.

That is a simplistic way to explain it.

If we borrow money with interest, the debt clock spins out of control, also contributing to the inflation.

Our government is the only thing that can cause inflation.

 

[not2big]

The dollar supported by an equivalent amount of gold (the gold standard) was abandoned more than 50 years ago. To think it matters today is anachronistic. The biggest threat to inflation increasing is excess budget deficits like Trump encouraged (to historic levels) during his administration.

 

[BigO]

The dollar supported by an equivalent amount of gold (the gold standard) was abandoned more than 50 years ago. To think it matters today is anachronistic. The biggest threat to inflation increasing is excess budget deficits like Trump encouraged (to historic levels) during his administration.

Yes, I was just using this as an example. Either way, the government is still the ones that cause/create inflation.

Trump was not the only one to increase the deficit. They all do it and then the next administration will blame the last. It's always been this way.

Obama did it, Trump did it, Biden did it and the next will as well.

We haven't had a decent president in the white house for decades and this next election will bring much the same no matter who wins.

We have a failed system ran by self indulgent assholes and warmongers and I don't just mean the current administration.

 

[Pegasus]

Hmm economics is as much art as science . Having said that I should bone up on the science .
very interesting post O .

 

[Johnny D]

So let's all keep buying cheap foreign stuff and put Americans out of work which will be great for the economy

That's a reductivist perspective. A supply of affordable goods is excellent for the economy, whereas an overpaid workforce and expensive goods is not. And tariffs work both ways - when other countries do the same, our exports go down considerably, putting more Americans out of work. This isn't economic theory and has played out exactly ever time it's been done.

Corporate tax rates are not always passed on to consumers, but are often resulting in reducing corporate profits which effect corporate investors..

Hardly true. Businesses have to maintain their profit and typically operate at a target range. They also have to provide a return to their investors who will simply divest if they don't. All increases to the cost of doing business are either passed on to the consumer or mitigated by reducing other costs, typically wages.

The Whitehouse is directly involved in inflation. If money is printed without backing, that is inflation.

If you have 100 dollars worth of gold and you print 100 dollars, the dollar is strong. If you have no more gold and print another 100 dollars, the dollar value drops in half.

That is a simplistic way to explain it.

If we borrow money with interest, the debt clock spins out of control, also contributing to the inflation.

Our government is the only thing that can cause inflation.

Yep. I guess what I mean is that Congress, not the White House, has the levers to pull in that regard. The WH can get in or out of the way with policy, etc. Congress can stop printing and spending money, etc.

 

[BigO]

That's a reductivist perspective. A supply of affordable goods is excellent for the economy, whereas an overpaid workforce and expensive goods is not. And tariffs work both ways - when other countries do the same, our exports go down considerably, putting more Americans out of work. This isn't economic theory and has played out exactly ever time it's been done.

Hardly true. Businesses have to maintain their profit and typically operate at a target range. They also have to provide a return to their investors who will simply divest if they don't. All increases to the cost of doing business are either passed on to the consumer or mitigated by reducing other costs, typically wages.

Yep. I guess what I mean is that Congress, not the White House, has the levers to pull in that regard. The WH can get in or out of the way with policy, etc. Congress can stop printing and spending money, etc.

Valid points Sir

 

[not2big]

Facts sometimes speak louder than words.The U.S. has the best GDP (% and aggregate) of any of the G7 countries. Wages are rising at a higher rate than inflation and the stock market is continuously reaching new records. Jobs continue to increase every month with unemployment continuing at a low level. And inflation has been significantly reduced to a manageable level. Accordingly, i do not consider the economy to be in a weak situation.

 

[Rok]

Those higher wages come at a huge cost, that is why all of the largest auto makers have moved their manufacturing plants to Mexico, including GM, Ford, Stellantis, and Toyota. All of those manufacturing facilities use to be in the US with thousands of jobs in each plant. Tariffs do not help, because of the loop hole that states Mexico is part of North America and not subject to foreign tariffs. (Side note, quality of all of those vehicles has declined.) All in the name of cheap labor.
Another example, California passed the law for minimum wage up to $20 per hour. The employees were excited. Now those excited employees are out of a job. Many fast food places closed, down sized, moved across state lines, or use computer screens and automation to replace workers.

 

[Johnny D]

Facts sometimes speak louder than words.The U.S. has the best GDP (% and aggregate) of any of the G7 countries. Wages are rising at a higher rate than inflation and the stock market is continuously reaching new records. Jobs continue to increase every month with unemployment continuing at a low level. And inflation has been significantly reduced to a manageable level. Accordingly, i do not consider the economy to be in a weak situation.

Unemployment is on a gradual rise since early 2022 so I'm not sure where your "low level" characterization comes from.
Sincere question for you... If the economy is in such a good position, why is Harris proposing policies to control it?

Those higher wages come at a huge cost, that is why all of the largest auto makers have moved their manufacturing plants to Mexico, including GM, Ford, Stellantis, and Toyota. All of those manufacturing facilities use to be in the US with thousands of jobs in each plant. Tariffs do not help, because of the loop hole that states Mexico is part of North America and not subject to foreign tariffs. (Side note, quality of all of those vehicles has declined.) All in the name of cheap labor.

Keep in mind that employees become consumers when they clock out for the day and relying on US labor to create our basic goods would increase the cost of those goods dramatically. When people are asked whether they'd pay more for goods that are produced in the US or are taxed coming into the US, they say yes. Then, when shown how much those goods would actually cost in either of those scenarios, well over 75% of people say no. It's a nice idea to have a busy workforce making all of your stuff, but the economic cost to do so would be devastating.
(Side question: What data is there to support the assertion that foreign-made vehicles are lower quality than US?)

Another example, California passed the law for minimum wage up to $20 per hour. The employees were excited. Now those excited employees are out of a job. Many fast food places closed, down sized, moved across state lines, or use computer screens and automation to replace workers.

WRT minimum wage... 100%! And that was easy to see coming. Despite employers warning that a raise in minimum wage would mean a cut in jobs and hours, they did it anyway. Now people want to know why their burger is so expensive and low-wage earners can't find a job.

WRT automation and such... Bring it on! Innovation and automation continues to propel the economy forward and has for over a century. In addition, it employs millions of workers who specialize in the various fields of technology that produce it.

 

[BigO]

I think with automation, there is good and bad. Automation can help but it should not be used in scenarios that would cut out huge labor forces.

For example, automated trucking, if they ever make it safe enough, would devastate the work force.

Automated burger joints, well, that is becoming necessary due to bad economic decisions.

We've been lead by so many low quality leaders, that the odds of ever recovering are slim to none.

We are at a point where the only solution is to break away from the central banking system and then round up the crooked politicians and have some old fashioned justice on public display