Please explain what medical procedure prevents conception 100% and is 100% reversible? How would you determine who is fit? Who decides who is fit?
But I 100% disagree with someone else having 100% control of another individual.
Abortion
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Please explain what medical procedure prevents conception 100% and is 100% reversible? How would you determine who is fit? Who decides who is fit?
But I 100% disagree with someone else having 100% control of another individual.
First who said anything about hating the gorvernment? Second I will take democracy over dictatorship anyday.
of course you will, you think democracy means you have a choice lol, which is the beauty of democracy
as for what medical procedure? I dont know, id say vasectomy for all males at birth, but i dont know if you can give a vasectomy before puberty, but where there is a will there is a way, so i am sure we could come up with something.
as for what medical procedure? I dont know, id say vasectomy for all males at birth, but i dont know if you can give a vasectomy before puberty, but where there is a will there is a way, so i am sure we could come up with something.
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This is a very interesting thread and I must give my view. I am MOSTLY against abortion. That being said I believe many situations require individual assessment.
Rape victims should have a choice, people who have become pregnant on certain meds should have a choice, people with HIV should have a choice and many other situations that are too numerous to list. I also think that those(of an adult age) who choose to use abortion simply as birth control should also undergo surgery to remove the chance of ever having a baby. But this is simply how I feel. You can feel different!
I am not for abortion but I am pro choice, confused yet. Its really simple, its not my place to tell you what to do with your body. I know the stance of religion has been broughtup but if you believe in GOD then you actually cannot use that stance, GOD is forgiving, if you dont believe in GOD then the choice shouldnt matter at all. I may not be right in saying this but I am right in the fact that I have a right to express my view. I dont want back lash about GOD, I dont want backlash because I say a woman has the right when being raped to abbort. I have read all the posts in this thread and I agree with many that are in support of both sides. If you dont agree then you have made your choice. We can not judge others, at least not untill we are perfect and so far I havent read a post by a perfect person yet. Some pretty good people but no perfect ones.
Untill we can place the burden upon ourselves then we can not judge those that are going through something that we can not take off of them and place upon ourselves.
OH, the one thing I can do is close this thread and I will if I see any more name calling by anyone, We will all conduct ourselves in a grown up manner, express your opinions but do it like adults. Now enjoy this thread because we can all offer some of our own insight and beliefs to each other.
Rape victims should have a choice, people who have become pregnant on certain meds should have a choice, people with HIV should have a choice and many other situations that are too numerous to list. I also think that those(of an adult age) who choose to use abortion simply as birth control should also undergo surgery to remove the chance of ever having a baby. But this is simply how I feel. You can feel different!
I am not for abortion but I am pro choice, confused yet. Its really simple, its not my place to tell you what to do with your body. I know the stance of religion has been broughtup but if you believe in GOD then you actually cannot use that stance, GOD is forgiving, if you dont believe in GOD then the choice shouldnt matter at all. I may not be right in saying this but I am right in the fact that I have a right to express my view. I dont want back lash about GOD, I dont want backlash because I say a woman has the right when being raped to abbort. I have read all the posts in this thread and I agree with many that are in support of both sides. If you dont agree then you have made your choice. We can not judge others, at least not untill we are perfect and so far I havent read a post by a perfect person yet. Some pretty good people but no perfect ones.
Untill we can place the burden upon ourselves then we can not judge those that are going through something that we can not take off of them and place upon ourselves.
OH, the one thing I can do is close this thread and I will if I see any more name calling by anyone, We will all conduct ourselves in a grown up manner, express your opinions but do it like adults. Now enjoy this thread because we can all offer some of our own insight and beliefs to each other.
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Vasectomy isn't 100% reversible. . .to date there is NO medical procedure that can guarntee 100% sterliazation that can be reversed 100%. I believe many cultures have been trying to figure this out for hundreds of years with no results.
Why would you want to control when or if your child, friend or loved one has a baby? Would you really want to seek permission from your dr or government official to have a baby? If so then you really do not get the concept of having children. I choose to have my babies, I have always wanted to be a mom and I would and have went to the ends of the earth to have my babies. So really controlling someones ability to concieve is different then controlling their decision to have an abortion. If someone doesn't want to have a baby and never wants one they shouldn't have sex unless they choose to get strelized or accept the fact each time they have sex they could be making a baby. If someone isn't ready for a child yet but someday wants one, then they should not have sex. Unless they want to chance making a baby and are willing to be responsible for that baby. No birth control method is 100% effective EXCEPT if a women has a partial or complete hysterectomy. Vastectomies are not 100% effective but they have a lesser fail rate then condoms and birth control pills. In case of rape or some other horrific event a women should have the choice to terminate the pregnancy.
Regarding government, That's not a 100% why I choose democracy. History has taught me dictatorship leads to people like Hitler. . . But this thread isn't about leadership or government we prefer, it's about abortion. So I will choose to debate about pro-choice or pro-life. Save the debate on politics for a seperate thread.
Why would you want to control when or if your child, friend or loved one has a baby? Would you really want to seek permission from your dr or government official to have a baby? If so then you really do not get the concept of having children. I choose to have my babies, I have always wanted to be a mom and I would and have went to the ends of the earth to have my babies. So really controlling someones ability to concieve is different then controlling their decision to have an abortion. If someone doesn't want to have a baby and never wants one they shouldn't have sex unless they choose to get strelized or accept the fact each time they have sex they could be making a baby. If someone isn't ready for a child yet but someday wants one, then they should not have sex. Unless they want to chance making a baby and are willing to be responsible for that baby. No birth control method is 100% effective EXCEPT if a women has a partial or complete hysterectomy. Vastectomies are not 100% effective but they have a lesser fail rate then condoms and birth control pills. In case of rape or some other horrific event a women should have the choice to terminate the pregnancy.
Regarding government, That's not a 100% why I choose democracy. History has taught me dictatorship leads to people like Hitler. . . But this thread isn't about leadership or government we prefer, it's about abortion. So I will choose to debate about pro-choice or pro-life. Save the debate on politics for a seperate thread.
Great post and opinion
I think a lot of people have the same view if they really soul search on this topic. As a woman, it's hard not to be pro-choice. . . .as a mom it's hard not to be pro-life. . .as a nurse I can see both sides. If anyone has known a woman who wants to be a mom and wants to concieve and carry her own baby and cannot, then you would easily understand pro-life. . . .If you have ever known a woman who has been raped and impregnanted from that rape you can understand pro-choice. If you ever witnessed a partial-birth abortion. . .you would understand pro-life. . . .if you have ever seen a 15 year old girl sexual abused for year and carring her fathers baby . . .pro-choice. . . there are so many scenriaos to consider if ever a law was set againist pro-choice. For me I am pro-choice because I wouldn't want anyone to make that decision for me. . .
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Great post and opinion
For me I am pro-choice because I wouldn't want anyone to make that decision for me. . .
Well said Hotlips, so many have opinions without experiences related to a subject that they think they know about. It is so easy for people to say that they would do this or you shouldnt do that but if they havent sat next to someone they love while a doctor tells that lady that carrying this child may cost her her very own life they actually dont know what they would do, only what they think they would do. The two may prove to be very, very different.
I hope most never sit in that chair because its not a very comfortable seat.
Thank you and what you said is so true, I would never want my worst enemy to have to sit in that seat. It's so easy to pass judgment on others when we have never had to walk in their shoes. In your example that would be such a hard choice, I have no idea what I would do. You trully do not know what you would do until in that situation.
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I'd consider myself Pro-life. I think that abortions in the form of birth control should be illegal always and forever. As a compromise, I do understand the argument for allowing them to victims of rape or assault. Those would be verified by doctors and in a different category. I'm still iffy on that in my own believes, but I think it would do more harm than good to make them totally illegal. So for those who are abused, have it verified and if that's what you want, then ok.
I've actually heard the heart starts beating at 14 days, though I haven't checked that.
I've never understood the argument that the woman should be allowed to do whatever she wants with her body in terms of abortions. Killing the child inside of you isn't your body, it's its own separate person. She has every right to do what she wants to her own body, but she is making a decision to kill that which is not her body. If they are one-in-the-same, then the father should get just as much say in it, since it is part of him as well.
And how is it any different from deciding after it's born that you can't handle it and decide to kill it? As stated earlier by someone else, if you draw a line in the timeline of "up to this point it doesn't count" but at like 6 months it's inhumane, then how is that different? If you kill it, you kill it. It's as simple as that.
If anyone even considers that there are no moral absolutes, they are a fool. In Muslim countries, women get raped and then are sentenced by a COURT OF LAW to be stoned to death for infidelity. Tell me that isn't morally corrupt. Just because a society allows it doesn't make it right.
I've actually heard the heart starts beating at 14 days, though I haven't checked that.
I've never understood the argument that the woman should be allowed to do whatever she wants with her body in terms of abortions. Killing the child inside of you isn't your body, it's its own separate person. She has every right to do what she wants to her own body, but she is making a decision to kill that which is not her body. If they are one-in-the-same, then the father should get just as much say in it, since it is part of him as well.
And how is it any different from deciding after it's born that you can't handle it and decide to kill it? As stated earlier by someone else, if you draw a line in the timeline of "up to this point it doesn't count" but at like 6 months it's inhumane, then how is that different? If you kill it, you kill it. It's as simple as that.
If anyone even considers that there are no moral absolutes, they are a fool. In Muslim countries, women get raped and then are sentenced by a COURT OF LAW to be stoned to death for infidelity. Tell me that isn't morally corrupt. Just because a society allows it doesn't make it right.
What is best for humanity transcends my wants and needs, its not about what I want, its about what is right. Its not about my personal situation or my personal bias. Its about what is right, regardless of the position I am in, its about making the decision that inconveniences people the least and does the best to give everyone what is needed. Everything must be taken into consideration, not just one individuals personal wants, needs, or bias's. As for why?
For starters it would save the human race from itself via overpopulation, it would cut down on diseases, it would do good for the economy, cut down on famine, not to mention the profound affect of removing the majority of the population who are useless drains on society and the result of low self esteem and a need for continual validation by its weakest members.
as for hitler
"No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks" - Mary Shelley
as for the medical procedure i already said I dont know, but that is not really a valid reason as to why procreation should not be regulated lol
The heart may start to beat at 14-18 days (edit: Well, nevermind. Guess it doesn't. Last time I pay attention to thosse 9873659873497 billboards along I-75. Refer to Hotlips' post about the time before heartbeat), but scientists in a lab can make a heart beat on a lab tray. Life isn't so simple that it is medically possible to exist only by the heart beat. Fact is that before 6 months, there is 0% chance of life from a fetus, and at 6 months it's only a 50% chance. An abortion before basically 6.5 months is NOT killing a living being.
Medical facts will always trump religious opinion which gets passed off as fact.
Medical facts will always trump religious opinion which gets passed off as fact.
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Heart starts to beat at 5 weeks most drs will wait 6 weeks to see if there is a heartbeat since conception date can be off +/- a few days.
Anything is possible, most science isn't 100% 100% of the time. You may look whatever you want up on the internet. . .but that doesn't make it 100% fact.
As far as a babies heartbeating. . .it is possible for a fetuses heart to beat sooner then 5 weeks but medical professionals will tell you 5 weeks for a steady heartbeat and viable fetus. But even then most Drs will wait until 6 weeks gestation. There is a reason most drs do not do complete ultrasonds until 3mos gestation.
Never said it was 100% fact 100% of the time, though in this case, it is, unless you can show me proof that a fetus at 1-5 months can sustain life on it's own. It's just not medically possible.
living being? maybe not, human being? yup.
Medical fact is only fact until its disproved, which happens daily. Religion is simply that.... religion, and personally i say a beleif in god or an afterlife voids your opinion because what happens here doesn't really matter now does it? this is just like a short test for the afterlife.
My statement regarding science isn't 100% 100% of the time was provoked by you saying
"Medical facts will always trump religious opinion which gets passed off as fact."( how about a little more clarification on this. . . maybe an example of what you feel is religious opinion being passed off as medical fact) Your post is stating that the medical information you have posted is fact but it is not 100% factual, 100% of the time. And in my opinion you are applying that other people posting medical information is based on regilgion. My opinions are not based on religion, they are based on edcuation and experince. I am not sure where you are getting you're supposed medical facts but if you would like I will dig up cases where a baby has been delivered at 6 mos and has survived.
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