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The role of ischiocavernosus in hard flaccid and ways to train it

Robson1444

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So the past few weeks i have been seeing great confusion about the ischiocavernosus muscle and ways to train it.This prompted me to create this post.I will try to explain a good way to train this muscle and why i think you should make this a part of your routine.

As we all know penis symptoms (hard when flaccid,loss of erect length and/or girth,numbness around the penis even pain,clockwise rotation of the penis base and penis bending on one side )is caused mainly by the ischiocavernosus muscle.I have spoken multiple times about the role this muscle has and how crucial it is in an erection .For those wanting to see evidence of my claims here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc..._this_post_i_will_write_my_theory_about_hard/ .

Of course it is not that easy.In my posts i have detailed and proven the connection that the core muscles have with the pelvic floor and how training them is absolutely and i will repeat again ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL for the health of the pelvic floor.I have written how the levator ani (main muscle of your pelvic floor)can if being tighetened cause a contracted ischio (thuis giving rise to your symptoms) and how a strained ischio may in turn cause a contracted levator ani (thus some people after manual penis exercises also feel pain around their anus and perineum).For those interested here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc...i_will_present_a_theory_why_in_some_men_with/

Now that being said i have spoken how it is my opinion that doing direct physiotherapy exercises to the ischiocavernosus is also important.That is especially true if you got hard flaccid because of MANUAL PENIS EXERCISES.My logic and reason goes like this:If you strained your hamstring ,what will you do ?I believe you will work the surrounding muscle but you will also apply direct physiotherapy exercise to the main muscle involved.If you strained your shoulder muscles you will do the exact same thing.I believe that it is the same with the pelvic floor and that if you got hard flaccid by MANUAL PENIS EXERCISES(although if you got it due to masturbation or any other way i believe you will also benefit) you have to also do direct physiotherapy exercise to the main muscle we know causes your penis symptoms-the ischiocavernosus.The question that arises is how do we do that ?


Way to train the ischiocavernosus muscle


So the first post i made in which i first spoke about the ischiocavernosus,its role in hf and how to train it (you can see it here :https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc..._this_post_i_will_write_my_theory_about_hard/) i gave multiple ways to train this muscle which i will try to break down and explain why they are not optimal and at the same time i will give an alternative:


**So the first way is to train the ic flaccid.**This all stemmed from this post: https://amp.reddit.com/r/PIED/comments/7rvg88/ischiocavernosus_ic_muscle_cured_my_peed_and_low/ .Now considering the fact that in itself isolating the ic flaccid is an extremely hard thing that involves a very good self-awareness and most people will do just slight kegel thus setting themselves back i came to the conclusion that this is not an efficicent way to train especially considering that people with hf have a hypertonic pelvic floor.That being said there have been examples of people doing this,managing to find the proper way to isolate it and seeing progress.The most notable examole is saber.That being said traioning the ischiocavernosus flaccid is not an efficient way to train and there is a potential to set yourself back if you do it wrong(basically do a light kegel.


The second way is to train the ic erect and with a light resistance(a sock or a towel) while doing erect kegels.The logic behind this stemmed from these articles that basically show how kegel exercises cure venous leak and restore erectile function: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8435738/ ; The role of biofeedback in the rehabilitation of veno-occlusive erectile dysfunction Al-Helow MR, Abdul-Hady H, Fathalla MM, Zakaria MA, Hussein O, El Gahndour T - Egypt Rheumatol Rehabil .Now in my original post i spoke about the importance of always doing a reverse kegel before a contraction(at the time i thought wrongly that the only thing an erect reverse kegel does is relax your ischiocavernosus and the whole pelvic floor and make isolating the ic better).Many people thought that i mean to kegel and reverse kegel simultaneously (not a native speaker).Confusion ensued.Others just did a kegel without the reverse kegel part.Others were not able to lift their penis at all.Ultimately i was prompted to search for a better way-one that oinvolves relaxation of the pelvic floor(thus countering the hypertonicity)at the same time strengthening(thus broinging erection quality back).


The third way to train the ischiocavernosus and in my opinion the best is by doing erect reverse kegels.In
my research with this condition i came to this interesting article that really made me rethik the way i think about reverse kegels as a simple relaxation exercise:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18211298/ :"Bulbo/ischiocavernosus muscles (BCM, ICM) were found to contract on straining. We investigated the hypothesis that straining effects cavernosus muscles' contraction through a reflex action. The response of the BCM and ICM electromyographic (EMG) activity to increased intra-abdominal pressure (straining) as recorded by the intravesical pressure was registered in 32 healthy volunteers (age 39.2 +/- 10.3 years, 20 men, 12 women). "

For those of you who do not know the straining that is being described here is basically a strong reverse kegel.I also found this interesting article that again showed me how connected the muscles of he pelvic floor are:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16400076/ :"Whereas the bulbocavernosus muscle shares its contractile activity with the external anal sphincter (EAS), the response of the ischiocavernosus muscle (ICM) to EAS contraction could not be traced in the literature.Straining appears to effect cavernosus muscles' contraction through the 'straining-cavernosus reflex'. Cavernosus muscles' contraction produces compression of the penile and clitoral cavernous tissue."


That basically means that when you do a reverse kegel it is absolutely crucial to push with your anus(basically it should feel like trying to push out feces).***The above mentioned study also explains why some people see their hard flaccid getting worse especially if they have constipation.***So what you should do if you want to try this method is :stand up,get an erection,reverse kegel(basically push with your anus).What you should see is your penis rising slightly or at least getting spider veins(which means the ic tries to so its job and entrap the blood by pressing on the veins).You can try putting a light towel (or better a sock at the beginning) and also reverse kegel with it.With time you can also add additional resistance by pressing down on your erection with your finger while reverse kegeling(DO IT SLOWLY YOU WANT TO FEEL THE ECCENTRIC CONRACTION).You can also train it while laying at 45 degrees on your bed.The premise is the same.The point is to make sure that you push out with your anus.Normally when laying down your erection should point towards your belly button .In order to apply reistance try and push slowly your erection in the opposite direction towards your feet WHILE DOING A REVERSE KEGEL.I believe this method combines in itself relaxation of the levator ani(by pushing your external anal sphincter which is connected to it ,read more about the connection of the pelvic floor muscles here :https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12565-019-00521-2) and at the same time targeting a weak/or tensed muscle(the ischiocavernosus )and strengthening it and untensing it by eccentric contraction(when you push down with your finger against your erection).


Now if you are unable to get an erection or you are in pain it is vastly crucial to train the muscles which have the most connection with the contraction and relaxation of the pelvic floor.For this in mind i have created this routine based on the research i did. This routine is for all hard flaccid sufferers irrespective of the way they got this. Here it is :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/k7rerh/a_routine_for_hard_flaccid_sufferers/ .
People who tried ischiocavernosus training and got cured/or saw progress

Here i have tried to compile a list of all the people who in one way or the other did direct ischiocavrenosus training and saw results :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/k6d16k/its_the_ic_muscle/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/kiw4qk/hf_cured/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/jun2wb/this_guy_cured_himself_by_targeting_the_ic/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/jmswoe/a_doctor_with_hard_flaccid/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc..._story_and_progress_and_the_ongoing_conflict/
Also a comment by galacticpink on the pelvic floor sub : "I think he might be right, but it's hard to isolate cos the whole area is numb. I did it once couple years ago and I felt a significant difference but haven't really tried since. Will try again. "
Another guy :
"WOW, okay maybe ill try to spread the word.... Ive been doing this after i urinate and i finally got the twitching phenomenon you mention, then my penis started to get erect for the first time in MONTHS eithout stimulation. Im honestly speechless
Dude, thank you. Youre really onto something here...im going to continue and if things get even better ill make sure to back you up on the threads"
Also a user named silver fox123 shared that ic training helped him too.


Another user named darkmoon1990 answering in a thread what are the things that helped their hard flaccid :
"Towel raises with erect penis to strengthen IC muscles/ also reverse kegels
Stomach vacuums for weak core
Glute exercises
Dorisflexion exercise for weak ankles as they are also indirectly connected to pelvic floor.
These 4 routines cured my hard flaccid in a short period of time.
No joke guys."
As i say these i again will repeat about the importance of training surrounding muscles and i have written more about this in the threads i have linked below

You can also read my other work in connection to hard flaccid:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/ki5j0r/this_post_i_will_try_to_explain_the_hard_flaccid/
- Here i have tried to show and prove the connections the pelvic floor has with other muscles mainly those of the core

The routine i made :https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/k7rerh/a_routine_for_hard_flaccid_sufferers/

Why in some men a tensed ischiocavernosus after manual penis exercises and masturbation may causes symptoms all around the pelvic muscles :https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc...i_will_present_a_theory_why_in_some_men_with/


My opinion on venous leak : https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc..._venous_leak_is_a_symptom_not_a_condition_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flacc...mportant_post_in_connection_with_ic_training/

 
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Pegasus

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Have you read the work onsite re ic?
 

Robson1444

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I have and used it in the first two methods i describe here.However the attitude towards erect reverse kegels as a simple relaxation exercise or an exercise that makes you isolate the ic better during an erection is wrong.I truly learned a lot from people posting different things on this site .
 

Millionaire01

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I read some of the articles ,just out of curiosity if I do a towel raise to test if my IC muscle is weak and I actually can do it then what would the problem be if it aint the IC?
And im skeptical to do a kegek while having hard flaccid.
 

Robson1444

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I read some of the articles ,just out of curiosity if I do a towel raise to test if my IC muscle is weak and I actually can do it then what would the problem be if it aint the IC?
And im skeptical to do a kegek while having hard flaccid.



In my post i detail the different ways of training the ic and i specifically say exactly what you also say-that kegeling with this condition is not good.Please read my thread more carefully and see how i have proposed a different way of training the ic.The way with the erect reverse kegels that both relax the levator ani(the main muscle of the pelvic floor )and at the same time can strengthen(if resistance is applied)the ischiocavernosus.
 

DickerSchwanz

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I can do towel raises by engaging my BC muscles and my IC muscle ^^
Everything that involves flexing the bulbospongiosis muscle to get to the IC is the wrong way cause the BC is in a sense an antagonistic muscle to the IC like biceps to triceps(but not the same , just similar).
RK is the first step which if it is done as a full RK that expands the whole PF outwards can already free up the IC.

There was a test long ago with normal kegels where they stop beeing effective in accessing the erect penis angle,(i forgot the name of the test, BIB I think..).
I think the moment one looses access with the BC kegel the IC has access and manipulating the erect penis down and/or to the sides can give the IC best access to the inner penis and most ability to work it out. As it has mostly slow twitch muscles(bc-fast twitch) its best to train holds.
 
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Robson1444

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I can do towel raises by engaging my BC muscles and my IC muscle ^^
Everything that involves flexing the bulbospongiosis muscle to get to the IC is the wrong way cause the BC is in a sense an antagonistic muscle to the IC like biceps to triceps(but not the same , just similar).
RK is the first step which if it is done as a full RK that expands the whole PF outwards can already free up the IC.

There was a test long ago with normal kegels where they stop beeing effective in accessing the erect penis angle,(i forgot the name of the test, BIB I think..).
I think the moment one looses access with the BC kegel the IC has access and manipulating the erect penis down and/or to the sides can give the IC best access to the inner penis and most ability to work it out. As it has mostly slow twitch muscles(bc-fast twitch) its best to train holds.

I believe that a reverse kegel in itself also does engage the ischiocavernosus.