Brand New to PE -thoughts on routine.

[newguy42]

Hey everyone. Lots of knowledgeable people on this forum. Finally deciding to dive in.
I am in my early forties with a couple kids. Super Busy (aren't we all?). I own a few businesses and have worked in the fitness field for a while.
I am starting this because I'm always about optimization and this has interested me for a while. I'm also a big fan of routines.

My goal is to
1. Increase EQ.
2. Increase girth
3. Increase Flaccid hang
4. Increase Length.
I finally did correct measurements over the last few weeks. Suprised to see I was actually about 6 3/4 BPEL on my best days but quality isn't always the best and I would get to just under 6 1/2 on my weakest. G was just over 2.
I have both a tight and weak PF from some significant low back injuries. Have struggled with PE as well
I have limited time. So my thoughts were

5x week 10-20 min focusing on breathing and reverse kegels. when things feel good attempt some regular Kegels ...up to 25 throughout the day to start.

Heat and manual stretching 10 min 3 week to start.
Edge 3x 15-20 min week
I was thinking this for 90 days then possibly adding in pumping.
My schedule would not allow for a bathmate. Nor anything like all day hanging or extending in my line of work.
I'm trying to do this for me and discreetly. Honestly if I wer to get my EQ back solid. Gain 1/4-1/2 in in each area I'd be beyond thrilled. Thank you for any insight and help!

 

[MisterGeo]

You'll probably see a nice girth enhancement if you generally improve EQ with the edging and pelvic floor work. I think the main thing with pelvic floor work is activation. Get that conscious connection to the muscles firing. You might find that doing contractions will help the muscles to relax more efficiently too. Those muscles can become static. They like movement.

For length gains, I'm an advocate of manual stretching which is how I gained about 0.75 inch erect length. A few tips:

1. Make sure your grip is overhand (palms down) and placed right behind the glans, rather than midshaft. This is because it's easier to lock down into the deeper penile tissues with your grip near the end of the penis. Most of the grip will be performed with the index and middle finger with the other fingers enclosing the glans. Use those fingers to squeeze blood out of the glans before you really put your grip down. You don't want much blood if any in the glans while you put on your stretch.

2. Practice creating a comfortable grip and minimize slipping. Keep a dry towel at hand so you can rub your hands and penis dry between sets. This will prevent slippage.

3. You also want to minimize skin gliding over the top of the corpora cavernosa because this will cause skin stretching rather than stretching of deeper tissues. One way to minimize skin stretching is to pull any extra skin back away from the glans toward the body before you place your grip. This will minimize the amount of skin under your grip. You'll feel a much better stretch of the internal tissues this way.

4. Gradually practice testing your tolerances. It's difficult to communicate how much force is necessary. "More than is necessary" is a good rule of thumb, but that's admittedly vague. I have a digital fishing scale I used to measure my own optimal training tension. I put on a leather belt and pulled on the scale to estimate how much tension I'm using during a stretch. Optimally you want to be in the 8 to 12 pounds range, which will feel pretty intense to the muscles in your arms, wrists, and hands. The overhand grip forces the shoulder and wrist into internal rotation and that's just a very awkward position. So it will feel like you're using more of your strength than you really are. Without mitigation of slippage (usually due to moisture) it won't be possible to sustain a pull at optimal levels.

5. Think of the whole thing as practice. Keep practicing and developing comfort and skill. Study the effects of your stretch on the internal target tissues. The top of the length of the penis should feel as tight as a rope during a stretch. Alternate hands every 30 to 60 seconds. Just pull straight down and out. No need to do stretches in all directions. Gradually increase tension as your mental and physical comfort permits.

6. Keep in mind that there are risks and you might face setbacks eventually that compete with some of your other goals. If there are negative effects they would normally be temporary. Just keep the risks in mind. Keep in mind that I'm just another crazy anonymous dude out here on the Internet and I don't want to be telling anybody what to do to their bodies. I'm just telling you what I did and what the results were. I'd feel terrible if you did something at my suggestion and ended up with problems. So if you are crazy enough to do what I did, it's the fault of your own craziness, not mine LOL

I hope I'm not throwing too much at you, but I found these tips to be the key to my success with manual stretching. I've been hoping to help somebody new to replicate my own results for a long time, so I'll work with you if you are game. There's a learning curve, but it's pretty simple mechanics once you get acquainted with the anatomy.

I measured a gain of almost 0.5 inches by Day 19. I had devoted 20 minutes a day to just practicing this technique. I could tell my erection looked a little longer after a few days, so I finally measured and there's no mistaking it. Gains like this come suddenly when working with naive tissue. There is some latent length factor which is fully expressed with sufficient longitudinal stress. It's common for guys to report a quick and significant gain like this within a short time frame if they are working at optimal levels. My own gains are permanent so there's some kind of real tissue change that happens. I think it's like a release of fascia. Usually what you'll see is an almost sudden increment of length gain and then the gains will come to a dead stop.

Good luck. Let me know if I can clarify anything.

 

[not2big]

Hey newgiy!

Welcome to TBH.

Mr G has given you a good starting routine. All I can add is that You should take good starting photos so you have something solid to compare your future gains to.

 

[newguy42]

Thank you!
@mistergeorge This technique should resemble a jelq grip then? You are holding statically for 30-60s in one direction then alternate hands. What is the duration of a session. Less to start I'd imagine. Did you do thins every other day in the beginning? Did you work up to daily? Did you ever work in pumping? Thank you again!

 

[MisterGeo]

Thank you!
@mistergeorge This technique should resemble a jelq grip then?

You're welcome newguy42.

Here's PEispossible demonstrating the grip as I describe it. He has this photo on his profile. Scroll past his photo and you'll see some of my comments. Be sure to click "View previous comments..." to see the earliest comments I posted there. The comments there go into much more detail about the grip:

https://thebiohacker.com/forums/members/peispossible.217101/#profile-post-3260328

You are holding statically for 30-60s in one direction then alternate hands.

Yep, hold each rep for 30-60 seconds. The timing really depends on how comfortable your hands are. The longer you hold it, the more stress on the joints of your fingers and your muscles in the arms. So I've found 30-60 seconds to be a healthy target. Sometimes I hold them longer if it feels right. It's basically a lot of isometric contractions in the arm and hand and isometrics are usually hard to hold for much longer than that. I used to go for 2 minutes and it was brutal on my fingers.

You might find as you progress that your penis is slipping through your hands due to natural body oils and moisture. If keeping the skin dry with a towel doesn't work, there are some other things you can try. You'll find that the less slippage, the less tension you will have in your grip.

What is the duration of a session. Less to start I'd imagine.

You can start at 10 minutes if you'd like. I think it's safe to just set aside 20 minutes as practice time. And then just use that time wisely. In the beginning you'll be working more slowly as you think through things and not using as much force. So 20 minutes is probably a good target. I don't think you'll need to expand the time beyond 20 minutes unless it feels right. I was doing 30 minutes eventually and then I took it out to an hour, but honestly that was way way more than I needed to do. I got my gains just with limiting it to 20 minutes total time alternating hands and practicing effective technique.

Did you do thins every other day in the beginning? Did you work up to daily?

I decided early on that I would try doing it daily. My thinking was that I was giving my body about 24 hours rest between a period of 20 minutes of stretching. This worked well and it kept my skills sharp. I do believe it's safe to work daily with this kind of stretching unless you have reason to take a day off, like irritated skin or other issues. If you miss a day due to schedule conflicts or lack of privacy, don't sweat it.

Did you ever work in pumping? Thank you again!

I went through a phase early on back in 2008 when I was using pumping combined with milking/jelqing and squeezing techniques. I wasn't able to produce any gains that way, but others report good results. not2big has much more experience pumping than I do.

Hope this helps.

 

[newguy42]

Thank you, yes! I will start at 3-4 days per week (I'm always nervous about injury) and work up to daily. My wife says she is happy with my size now. I would really love EQ to improve but I can also tell theres more in the tank size wise lol if that makes sense. Looking forward to this. Thanks again @mistergeorge !

 

[MisterGeo]

Thank you, yes! I will start at 3-4 days per week (I'm always nervous about injury) and work up to daily. My wife says she is happy with my size now. I would really love EQ to improve but I can also tell theres more in the tank size wise lol if that makes sense. Looking forward to this. Thanks again @mistergeorge !

Glad to help if I can. You should be golden at 3-4 times per week. You're taking the best approach by only going with what you're comfortable with and gradually increasing. Always trust what your body is telling you. Feel your way forward the way you would if you were stepping out onto ice to make sure it is safe to walk on.

Most injuries from manual stretching will usually be superficial skin chaffing and so forth and will heal quickly. You can manage with lotion, but then you will need to wash the lotion off and dry before your next session. Lotion residue will act as a lube and you'll have slippage issues.

If you feel a sharp pinching sensation around your grip as you pull, pause and reset everything. Usually that sensation is just pinched or stretched skin around the grip area, rather than a sign of any injury. Inspect the skin and see if you can make an adjustment to avoid the sensation again. I found that these problems usually have to do with having too much skin under my grip. So pulling the skin back toward the body is always a good step before you grip.

Also, avoid trapping blood in the glans, even if it feels like you can get a better handle on the end of the penis. I tried this, thinking I could leverage that blood bubble as a sort of handle. This was the biggest mistake I made with manual stretching. The effect was like an extreme micro-jelq of the glans. When I pulled forward with my stretch, it just pushed on that blood bubble causing the pressure to burst capillaries. I got a very painful little hickey bruise on the tip of my penis. It took a week to heal. A minor superficial injury, but on a very sensitive part of the body. This is why I suggest using the enclosing middle, ring, and pinky to squeeze blood from the glans into the shaft before you really set your grip. You want minimal blood in the glans as you stretch.

I know this is all very detailed and lots of reading, but these are the things I learned the hard way. I do hope they help.

 

[newguy42]

Hey @mistergeorge . Just Checking in and I had a couple extra questions.
So I basically did a week at 3x stretch for 10-20 min. followed by 10-20 min of edging depending on schedule.
During the stretching I felt tension but no pain. The first week I saw improvements temporarily in Erect Length and girth. I actually did some of the stretching with a ruler. I know its not good to constantly measure but it was a guide for me to maintain tension and I have to say it was motivating to see an EL of 7in.
Towards the end of this week I noticed EQ wasn't quite the same. Flaccid length seemed to be mostly better and like I said no-pain. I have been warming up for 2-4 min
with a warm washcloth. Then a few helicopter shakes I have been holding the stretches for 30-60s. When i get a little tired I will do some more shakes in between and continue through. Then Edge.
Does this seem like a norma start? Just trying to get my footing and appreciate the experienced viewpoints. Thanks

 

[MisterGeo]

Hey @mistergeorge . Just Checking in and I had a couple extra questions.
So I basically did a week at 3x stretch for 10-20 min. followed by 10-20 min of edging depending on schedule.
During the stretching I felt tension but no pain.

That sounds good.

The first week I saw improvements temporarily in Erect Length and girth.

Sounds like your temporary improvements in length and girth could be a positive fluctuation in EQ. Could be related to your PE work or not. It's always hard to know.

I actually did some of the stretching with a ruler. I know its not good to constantly measure but it was a guide for me to maintain tension and I have to say it was motivating to see an EL of 7in.

I think it's a good idea to measure as frequently as you like. It's always good to know if you are dealing with a real gain or not.

Towards the end of this week I noticed EQ wasn't quite the same.

EQ fluctuations can be caused by many factors including just having your penis in the spotlight as you are training. It can get boring or expectations can mess with you. I would say keep an eye on it. You're still working at a low load and frequency and aren't reporting any skin irritation which can cause a dip in EQ.

Flaccid length seemed to be mostly better and like I said no-pain.

Sounds like good signs. My own flaccid hang definitely changed with manual stretching. I didn't measure flaccid length, but I know it doesn't retract when flaccid as much as it once did.

I have been warming up for 2-4 min
with a warm washcloth.

Is the warm washcloth wet?

I would recommend finding a dry heat source for warmup. Even dry heat can cause moisture, so I eventually gave up on using heat at all during stretching. I don't believe it will make much difference or prevent injuries. In fact, it can be problematic because heat causes skin to swell and slightly puffy skin isn't exactly the best gripping surface. It makes skin more tender and I think susceptible to scuffing during stretching. It also has a cumulative drying effect which can add to skin chaffing.

These are just my opinions and experiences. Not everyone uses heat. Some guys do. It's really up to you.

How to make a rice sock for dry heat:

If you decide to keep using heat, I highly recommend taking a cotton sock and filling it with ordinary white rice. Then tie the open end of the sock in a knot. I think I used a whole small bag of white rice, about 3 cups maybe.

Put the rice sock in the microwave for 1 to 2 minutes. The rice heats up and stays hot and mostly dry - although you will feel it emit some humidity once it's heated.

You'll have to experiment with the amount of time in the microwave. 2 minutes usually makes a rice sock that is too hot. So I would go with 30 sec intervals in the microwave. Take it out between intervals and move the rice around inside to distribute the heat evenly. Do this repeatedly until you find the right heat according to feel.

I made a rice sock nearly 6 years ago and I still use it on sore muscles. You can always use that excuse if anybody asks you what it is: sore muscles or joints or whatever. These are very inexpensive and durable therapeutic heat sources.

Then a few helicopter shakes I have been holding the stretches for 30-60s. When i get a little tired I will do some more shakes in between and continue through.

Sounds about right and the helicopters will ensure you're getting circulation.

Then Edge.

Yep. I never really included that as part of my routine, but it can't hurt.

Does this seem like a normal start?

It looks pretty normal to me. Have you started increasing intensity gradually? Do you happen to own a digital fish scale so you can test your pulling force? You can pick them up for like $10. The cheapest one you can find is all you need.

Just trying to get my footing and appreciate the experienced viewpoints. Thanks

No problem. I hope this works out for you as well as it did for me.

 

[newguy42]

Really appreciate the help! I will invest in the digital scale for sure. Yesterday was 12 min stretching 60s on 10-20 off with helicopters. EQ for edging after was not great and wasn't able top go as long. Perhaps its the Edging messing with the EQ. Maybe 3 -4 days stretch with 2 edge. Thank you!

 

[MisterGeo]

Really appreciate the help! I will invest in the digital scale for sure. Yesterday was 12 min stretching 60s on 10-20 off with helicopters. EQ for edging after was not great and wasn't able top go as long. Perhaps its the Edging messing with the EQ. Maybe 3 -4 days stretch with 2 edge. Thank you!

Glad I could help.

I remember sometimes feeling a little extra aroused after my stretching sessions. It does put a lot of pressure on the end of the penis, so maybe also try waiting to edge later rather than right after the stretching session.

I think the scale will be illuminating because you'll get to feel what the optimum training zone should feel like. It will give you a clear goal to work toward.

I don't know if I was totally clear about the moisture thing with heat. The problem with moisture and stretching is that any amount of moisture will contribute to your grip slipping. It's like greasing a rope.

Once you start pulling near optimal levels of tension you'll probably need to find some new ways to minimize slippage. Sometimes the grip is slipping even when we think it's not. The brain won't allow us to pull so hard that the penis slips through the grip. So we might not perceive the slippage, but the brain does and then it limits the force of our pulling. I found that when I minimized slippage there was less tension in my hands and I was able to easily supply a better stretch.

Lately I find keeping a dry towel handy to rub the hands and penis on between reps to be very effective at minimizing slippage. I also found liquid gym chalk on the hands to work like a dream. The difference was amazing. But it requires special care between sessions because the chalk tends to dry out the glans and shaft skin. If you decide to try the liquid gym chalk we can discuss in detail. I recommend the brand Spider Chalk which is available online direct from the maker in Georgia. Great stuff.

 

[blink2000]

Hi @newguy42

First, there's many approaches & routines and generally, all popular approaches work; whether it's a manual approach or devices, you'll see top gainers doing all sorts of different approaches, getting good results. It's most important to be consistent, keep doing your routine, keep measuring, don't overdo it.. you want to see positive progress indicators.

Importance of heat:
- Why heat matters: a cold penis is more prone to injury & tissues are less elastic; don't do PE while cold... make sure to warm up. make sure your unit & glans stay warm during the whole workout.
- Ways to get heat: Also, although I think heat is important, I've found a lazy way to get heat.. I use water pumping to warm up (with reatively hot water), and I use vac ADS & the particular device I use (stealthformen) keeps my unit very warm because it has a few layers of rubber. I was putting extreme effort into heat & I have an FIR pad I wrap around my unit sometimes, but lately I haven't bothered (if I was using an extender or compression hanger I would be using it, but with vac ADS I just don't need it). IF your unit is getting cold during your workout, that's really bad.. use a space heater, or something else to warm up.

Here's some of my thoughts:
1-You've had pelvic floor issues.. make sure NOT to overdo it with Kegels; I've seen some guys wreck their pelvic floor doing thousands of kegels.. I don't do over maybe 80 or maybe 100? Even 50 might be enough, although you want to make sure you're getting the technique right. I suggest researching this..
2-There's people that say length first / girth second, but the most recent generation of PE'ers is more divided on the topic. I'll say this; at least in my case, shooting for length gains resulted in great girth gains for me over the years. It's something worth being aware of - some old PE'ers that gained a lot of girth claimed it was harder to grow length (we are talking extreme girth -- beyond 6").
3-with pumping, I suggest water pumping & not going beyond 10 minute sessions. In my case, 10 minutes has been more than enough for amazing results.. Don't start at 10 minutes though -- slowly work up to it (e.g. start with just a few minutes & increase duration & pressure slowly over at least several weeks)
4-personally, I'm lazy -- for length gains.. I use stealthformen vac ADS.. I do get blisters sometimes, but usually when the device is slipping or parts are wearing out. The upside is I worked up to 2.5 hour sessions per day with no breaks needed (manually, I couldn't stretch that long, and compression hangers require breaks every 20 minutes, and noose extenders require breaks every hour, although a vac extender could in theory do about the same thing).
5-if you care about flaccid gains: in my case, NOTHING compares to pumping .. I've made more permanent flaccid gains in the last year than in my first 3 years of PE through pumping. My flaccid penis permanently hangs longer & thicker.. Although I notice after a few days pumping wears off... I will continue pumping for years, and I am expecting my flaccid to continue growing... after pumping (and this persists for a while, perhaps a day), my flaccid is now bigger than my pre-PE fully erect size.
6- take it slowly, if you get injured, you'll have to stop doing pe for 2 weeks or even a month (depening on severity). learn to watch for positive & negative indicators.. morning wood, higher EQ, bigger flaccid hang -- those are positive indicators.. the opposite effects are negative, and of course pain/ injury is negative.. PE generally doesn't require any pain, beyond maybe some uncomfortable fatigue (but that's not a sharp pain).

Finally, if it wasn't clear already, I 'm a big fan of pumping.. I had EQ issues; that's what really brought me back to PE a year ago. And since I started water pumping, my EQ is the highest it's been in many years. Between EQ improvements, flaccid gains & even permanent girth gains, water pumping has become a core part of my routine.

 

[newguy42]

Awesome, Thank you @blink2000 !
I originally wanted to start with pumping but I thought easiest point of entry would be manuals. I originally thought of working on PF, Edging and stretching for 6 -8 weeks then possibly adding in low-ish volume Jelqs but I see so much conflicting info.
I hear you on the Kegels . It seems to be a rare day when I could do more than 10-20 without getting excessive stiffness. Something I'm working through.

I may look into pumping sooner, especially after hearing of your EQ benefits. I would liketo be as discreet as possible and start off as easy as possible. I wasn't sure if the bathmate was right for me because of the need for water and the lack of a guage. I had looked into the LEluv pumps including the automatic one as well as Kaplan's but the Kaplan didn't have good reviews at all. Do you use a ring after pumping or is that only for men who wish to have sex immediately after?

 

[blink2000]

i use a bathmate pump and wish it had a gauge. leluv punps have good reviews… that might be what @PEispossible uses. i suggest a water pump with a gauge if you can find one. my bathmate at least gets the job done. i have been using it 1 year…. i have had a few very minor injuries— some of which could possibly be avoided with a gauge.

i have never heard of Kaplan pumps, and i’ve been doing PE a long time…that’s probably not a good sign.

regarding a ring do you mean a cock ring or do you mean some kind of extra seal at the base?

 

[newguy42]

Thank you. I will be on the look out for that. Yes, I feel the gauge would be important for me. And yes, i was referring to a cock ring. Thanks again!

 

[blink2000]

why would you want to use a cock ring while pumping? i have never heard of anyone using a cock ring while pumping…

the negative pressure in the pump is pretty intense and even when i had eq issues i had no problem getting an extremely strong erection in a water pump.

i suggest you first get accustomed to regular pumping… do it and see if you think a cock ring is necessary…

using a cock ring in a pump under intense pressure might increase injury risk… i sometimes get blisters from pumping just with the normal approach… but it’s because i like going to max pressure, which i’ve had to cut back on…

 

[newguy42]

I meant to wear post pumping

 

[blink2000]

oh.. right.. makes sense. i know that's one of the ways of improving girth, but don't know much about using cock rings that way myself