How to eliminate involuntary kegel contractions completely

[bighung.guy]

Hello,
I was going through arousal techniques and I realised that I'm going through all the mental and physical symptoms mentioned in the post. I didn't noticed earlier that I would need to master my arousal control as well. I only was going to focus on premature ejaculation so i had only focused on tight pelvic floor. Then i checked if i have involuntary kegels, so I am feeling a strong kegel everytime i touch the glans or below the head of penis.
To eliminate the involuntary kegel contractions completely, arousal control post says to i need to practice edging with reverse kegels and maintain diagram breathing throughout. But will it work ? Or do i need to do some more?
Also for beating premature ejaculation do i need to master arousal control first ?

 

[mistergeorge]

Have you mastered voluntary contractions yet? How long can you consciously hold a contraction?

 

[bighung.guy]

I've completely stopped kegel exercises after i realised I have overtrained them.
This is may be my assumption that I may have overtrained them because one time I was masturbating and then after i ejaculation i tried to perform kegels just to get to know how it feels to kegel but after few kegels i ejaculated again. After this incident I am regular wet dreams/nocturnal emissions.
Can anybody please confirm if I'm correct?

 

[bighung.guy]

Hello,
I was going through arousal techniques and I realised that I'm going through all the mental and physical symptoms mentioned in the post. I didn't noticed earlier that I would need to master my arousal control as well. I only was going to focus on premature ejaculation so i had only focused on tight pelvic floor. Then i checked if i have involuntary kegels, so I am feeling a strong kegel everytime i touch the glans or below the head of penis.
To eliminate the involuntary kegel contractions completely, arousal control post says to i need to practice edging with reverse kegels and maintain diagram breathing throughout. But will it work ? Or do i need to do some more?
Also for beating premature ejaculation do i need to master arousal control first.

Sorry previous post had some grammatical mistakes which may had created confusion I'm context. This is now updated and corrected version.

 

[mistergeorge]

I've completely stopped kegel exercises after i realised I have overtrained them.
This is may be my assumption that I may have overtrained them because one time I was masturbating and then after i ejaculation i tried to perform kegels just to get to know how it feels to kegel but after few kegels i ejaculated again. After this incident I am regular wet dreams/nocturnal emissions.
Can anybody please confirm if I'm correct?

It's difficult to know what happened. I've worked my pelvic floor muscles to extremes and never had any problems.

 

[bighung.guy]

Now i have less worry about wet dreams because pelvic floor stretches and yoga havd really helped me to relax my lower body and pelvic region. Now my primary focus will be to Eliminate involuntary kegel spasms which I can literally feel, an involuntary contraction at perineum while i pinch my glans or below the head of penis. Is it normal to have involuntary kegel contractions which I can feel at my perineum region when i try to pinch my glans penis or frenulum?

 

[mistergeorge]

Yes, that's a reflex called the bulbocavernosus reflex. It is also called the Osinkski Reflex.

It is commonly used in diagnosing erectile dysfunction. If you get a contraction, it is a sign of good health.


"Measurement of the bulbocavernosus reflex is used widely to diagnose underlying neurogenic disorders in erectile dysfunction. A prolonged bulbocavernosus reflex latency (that is more than 45 msec.) or the absence of a reflex response of the bulbocavernosus muscles during electrical stimulation of the glans penis is considered a sign of neurological disease."

Bulbocavernosus reflex: its validity as a diagnostic test of neurogenic impotence - PubMed

Measurement of the bulbocavernosus reflex is used widely to diagnose underlying neurogenic disorders in erectile dysfunction. A prolonged bulbocavernosus reflex latency (that is more than 45 msec.) or the absence of a reflex response of the bulbocavernosus muscles during electrical stimulation...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

See also:

"The bulbocavernosus reflex (BCR) is a well-known somatic reflex that is useful for gaining information about the state of the sacral spinal cord segments. When present, it is indicative of intact spinal reflex arcs (S2–S4 spinal segments) with afferent and efferent nerves through the pudendal nerve."

The importance of the bulbocavernosus reflex - PMC

The BCR consists of the contraction of the bulbocavernosus muscle in response to squeezing the glans penis or clitoris, and is mediated through the pudendal nerve. In case of a complete lesion, the presence of BCR is indicative of intact S2-S4 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Bulbocavernosus reflex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bighung.guy]

Yes, that's a reflex called the bulbocavernosus reflex. It is also called the Osinkski Reflex.

It is commonly used in diagnosing erectile dysfunction. If you get a contraction, it is a sign of good health.


"Measurement of the bulbocavernosus reflex is used widely to diagnose underlying neurogenic disorders in erectile dysfunction. A prolonged bulbocavernosus reflex latency (that is more than 45 msec.) or the absence of a reflex response of the bulbocavernosus muscles during electrical stimulation of the glans penis is considered a sign of neurological disease."

Bulbocavernosus reflex: its validity as a diagnostic test of neurogenic impotence - PubMed

Measurement of the bulbocavernosus reflex is used widely to diagnose underlying neurogenic disorders in erectile dysfunction. A prolonged bulbocavernosus reflex latency (that is more than 45 msec.) or the absence of a reflex response of the bulbocavernosus muscles during electrical stimulation...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

See also:

"The bulbocavernosus reflex (BCR) is a well-known somatic reflex that is useful for gaining information about the state of the sacral spinal cord segments. When present, it is indicative of intact spinal reflex arcs (S2–S4 spinal segments) with afferent and efferent nerves through the pudendal nerve."

The importance of the bulbocavernosus reflex - PMC

The BCR consists of the contraction of the bulbocavernosus muscle in response to squeezing the glans penis or clitoris, and is mediated through the pudendal nerve. In case of a complete lesion, the presence of BCR is indicative of intact S2-S4 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Bulbocavernosus reflex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh that's a quite relief actually. But while reading arousal control post by drummer19 he mentioned that while touching the glans or below head of penis we experience involuntary kegel contractions. I thought it was the same kegel contractions which I'm having while pinching the glans or below head of penis.
If they are not what I'm experiencing then what actually are involuntary kegel contractions??

 

[mistergeorge]

Oh that's a quite relief actually. But while reading arousal control post by drummer19 he mentioned that while touching the glans or below head of penis we experience involuntary kegel contractions. I thought it was the same kegel contractions which I'm having while pinching the glans or below head of penis.
If they are not what I'm experiencing then what actually are involuntary kegel contractions??

That's a very good question. I think guys with premature ejaculation problems worry about other things that are normal for most men. I don't think "involuntary kegel contractions" are anything to worry about for most guys. It's easy to get confused by some of the things guys say in the forums.

 

[bighung.guy]

but according to the arousal control technique post it's basic thing to completely eliminate the involuntary contractions to beat PE. then how can i know what i need to relax if i dont know what an involuntary contraction is?

 

[1pumpman]

I've found that more important than eliminating involuntary contractions is the ability to relax your pelvic muscles whenever said contractions occur. Focus more on reversing the effect of involuntary contractions by simply letting go (relaxing the pelvic floor) or doing a light reverse kegel. Be mindful of when your involuntary contractions happen and make it a habit of not letting them linger for too long, like 3 or 4 seconds.

Involuntary contraction is any kegel that happens without you actively trying to do one. I don't think you'll have trouble understanding whether you are experiencing them or not (you probably are). The thing is -- they are not the devil. I don't think it's possible to completely eliminate them; in fact, letting them happen can sometimes help you relax your pelvic floor afterwards (that's anecdotal evidence though).

 

[mistergeorge]

but according to the arousal control technique post it's basic thing to completely eliminate the involuntary contractions to beat PE. then how can i know what i need to relax if i dont know what an involuntary contraction is?

I think we're talking about two things.

First, there's the natural reflex when you put pressure on or near the glans. There will always be some natural contractions of the pelvic muscles during sexual activity.

Second, is the experience of the ejaculatory response during sexual activity. This is the thing that you will want to learn how to quiet down or hold still in order to learn to delay ejaculation. Usually it's a matter of learning to avoid that Point Of No Return. I think of it in terms of pacing and just holding still when I feel it coming on. By staying calm the ejaculatory response fades.

I think it's best to practice this sort of thing during real sex.

 

[bighung.guy]

I think we're talking about two things.

First, there's the natural reflex when you put pressure on or near the glans. There will always be some natural contractions of the pelvic muscles during sexual activity.

Second, is the experience of the ejaculatory response during sexual activity. This is the thing that you will want to learn how to quiet down or hold still in order to learn to delay ejaculation. Usually it's a matter of learning to avoid that Point Of No Return. I think of it in terms of pacing and just holding still when I feel it coming on. By staying calm the ejaculatory response fades.

I think it's best to practice this sort of thing during real sex.

Yes. correct i can relate with this one more. Now, regarding reverse Kegels while i'm fully erect is, i can feel that there is tense muscle at the perineum region which i felt with my finger that runs from inside stomach and in my opinion is responsible to hold erections so do i need to relax that muscle ? am i right? or do i need to relax muscle at the base of my penis where contraction sems to be originate? my primary goal is to isolate front reverse kegels.

 

[Johnny D]

I've found that more important than eliminating involuntary contractions is the ability to relax your pelvic muscles whenever said contractions occur. Focus more on reversing the effect of involuntary contractions by simply letting go (relaxing the pelvic floor) or doing a light reverse kegel. Be mindful of when your involuntary contractions happen and make it a habit of not letting them linger for too long, like 3 or 4 seconds.

^

 

[mistergeorge]

Yes. correct i can relate with this one more. Now, regarding reverse Kegels while i'm fully erect is, i can feel that there is tense muscle at the perineum region which i felt with my finger that runs from inside stomach and in my opinion is responsible to hold erections so do i need to relax that muscle ? am i right? or do i need to relax muscle at the base of my penis where contraction sems to be originate? my primary goal is to isolate front reverse kegels.

I don't think it's possible to truly isolate a front reverse kegel. You can accentuate it, but whenever you do a RK you will always be putting outward and downward pressure on the whole pelvic floor.

When you need to delay ejaculation you really want to just relax and hold still the whole pelvic floor as far as I know.

 

[bighung.guy]

I don't think it's possible to truly isolate a front reverse kegel. You can accentuate it, but whenever you do a RK you will always be putting outward and downward pressure on the whole pelvic floor.

When you need to delay ejaculation you really want to just relax and hold still the whole pelvic floor as far as I know.

But minuteman says to experience multiple orgasms or dry orgasms we need to get isolate front reverse kegels from back reverse kegels. How to achieve that ?

 

[mistergeorge]

But minuteman says to experience multiple orgasms or dry orgasms we need to get isolate front reverse kegels from back reverse kegels. How to achieve that ?

Minuteman is wrong. Male multi-orgasm is something that some guys can't do. I can't, even though I've tried. The studies into this phenomenon show that men who can go MMO learn how to have multiple orgasms in different ways. Usually there was no kegels work, although it's a path some have taken. I can do things with my pelvic floor that nobody talks about. I've trained these muscles to extremes. I got other benefits but no MMO. So go figure.

Seems like your first goal is to learn to delay ejaculation. MMO will either come to you in the future or not. Best of luck.

 

[bighung.guy]

Ohk thanks mistergeorge for insights.

 

[GizemliGüzel]

Hi! Long time lurker here.. Could you please elaborate more on what kind of exercise and things you can do with your pelvic floor that no one talks about?

I've noticed about myself, when pushing out a booger in the toilet, that after a big hard push there's a strong IK. Is this a normal BC reflex mentioned here, or a sign of a tight pelvic floor?

My intuition tells me, if I can control this involuntary kegel while pooping, I might also be able to control IKs during sex/masturbation. I've tried to stop this IK, but I've found until now that I can hold off that kegel for some seconds, but its like it just wants a chance to flex and tighten up to its normal state. I've experimented a little bit with internal massage, using a sterile glove and inserting my finger into the anus to see if I could loosen out any knots in the pelvic floor area but haven't had much luck, though I've only tried 3 times until now.
I have an idea of using a pussy pump or cupping device attached to the perineum in order to force it to stretch and increase blood flow to the pelvic muscles - I wonder if there's anyone else out there that has tried this?

 

[mistergeorge]

Hi! Long time lurker here.. Could you please elaborate more on what kind of exercise and things you can do with your pelvic floor that no one talks about?

Welcome to the forums, and thanks for asking about this. I'm doing deep contractions of the levator ani muscles. It feels almost like the perineum is being drawn up inside the pelvis. I don't know how else to describe it. I've also found that once I train for a few weeks these muscles have almost inexhaustible endurance. I used to lie on the floor and watch a movie and do countless repetitions of contractions for 1-2 hours. I haven't done this kind of work in while. I just find it interesting that I don't hear these kinds of descriptions from other guys doing pelvic muscle exercise. I might be doing something completely different. I tried to teach a friend once, and he lost patience. I think he just wasn't motivated. Usually what I hear described from other guys is worry that they will over work the muscles or train an imbalance to the point of causing a pelvic floor disorder. In my experience I don't think so.

I've noticed about myself, when pushing out a booger in the toilet, that after a big hard push there's a strong IK. Is this a normal BC reflex mentioned here, or a sign of a tight pelvic floor?

Well, the timing of your post is perfect, because I had to go to the toilet when I read this, so I paid attention to what happened, and yes there is an involuntary contraction of the external anal sphincter and surrounding muscles in the perineum and pelvic floor after it comes out. It happened about three times during this particular bowel movement. I guess I've noticed it before but never made anything of it. So I believe this is a totally natural contraction that brings the pelvic floor back up into its proper position.

My intuition tells me, if I can control this involuntary kegel while pooping, I might also be able to control IKs during sex/masturbation. I've tried to stop this IK, but I've found until now that I can hold off that kegel for some seconds, but its like it just wants a chance to flex and tighten up to its normal state. I've experimented a little bit with internal massage, using a sterile glove and inserting my finger into the anus to see if I could loosen out any knots in the pelvic floor area but haven't had much luck, though I've only tried 3 times until now.

I'm not sure you'd want to stop those involuntary kegels during sex. I'm not sure these reflexes can really be controlled like that. The IK you are talking about is probably the bulbocavernosus reflex or Osinski reflex. This is totally normal and part of sexual arousal. It's the response of the bulbospongiosus and ischiocavernosus muscles to pressure on the glans ususally. It's sometimes used to assess erectile dysfunction. The reflex is a good sign of nerve function.

I have an idea of using a pussy pump or cupping device attached to the perineum in order to force it to stretch and increase blood flow to the pelvic muscles - I wonder if there's anyone else out there that has tried this?

I've never heard of it. I suppose you could try it, but I think you'd be mostly pulling blood into the skin. It probably wouldn't go deep enough to pull blood into the muscles. Best bet for increasing blood flow to the muscles is probably exercise - lots of reps.