Thoughts on Charleston

[Party]

Let?

Let was the wrong word, like you have a choice, my bad.

 

[longerlastingnoob]

Hey einstein, that is not mass murder.

Oh.... my mistake, it's ok then, not mass murder just one kid.

Einstein? Why be childish.

 

[longerlastingnoob]

Let was the wrong word, like you have a choice, my bad.

Yes people here and in the uk who want to legally own a weapon don't have that choice.
Just like people in America who don't want guns rampant in their country, have no choice.

 

[getinbig]

This is so sad, tragic, unnecessary and wrong. The heart can be desperately wicked. This is an example of how evil we can be. The flip side of this evil is seen in the forgiveness of the families of the victims. Light contrasting with darkness. We should walk in the light rather than darkness...

 

[Tamora]

It has been suggested that easy access to guns might have prevented this crazy guy from killing these people. ta53ora suggests that it would take more planning to build a bomb than to spray a room with bullets (#18) but this is an extremely poor comparison. It attempts to compare all the effort to build, arm, transport and detonate the bomb to the effort it takes to pull the trigger of a gun; ignoring the effort it took to obtain the gun. Either you need to consider all the work it took to move from a weaponless person through to the action of murder, or you need to consider only the action that sent projectiles flying towards living being that caused their deaths.

Given the easy access to bomb building instructions online and the readily availability of the supplies to the casual shopper. Building the bomb is pretty damn easy. Compare that to finding a gun for purchase, arranging to effect the transaction, and perhaps purchasing the ammunition for the gun. Getting a gun is somewhat easy, however, if you're buying it from someone who got it from a store (and had to register it) they are personally interested in you registering it etc. So, let's say they are almost equally accessible...blah, blah, blah...

Again, very well put Sherlock...but don't you think you are over complicating things? It has already been established that the perpetrator had been supplied the gun by his father.

As a kid, we used to make "copper bombs" out of a bit of copper pipe, weedkiller and sugar...weapons are easy to make if you have the knowledge...that's not my point. There's no reason to plan and execute an assassination if the deadly weapon is placed in your hands because of your freedom to "defend yourself".

 

[Party]

So my point is how many potential murderers are out there, men, women who get guns to protect themselves / and family, kids in the family who can access it, siblings or partners or whatever.
It still wouldn't be full proof in making sure guns only went to those who deserve them, but it would make a difference.
You would still have your right after they've made necessary checks, and you and your family are all good people, so there would be no problem.

Let try this again. There is no crime in being a " potential murderer". And with gun ownership comes a piece of personal responsibility, that mite hard for many to understand these days . But "personal responsibility" means accepting the decisions you make and accepting the consequences good or bad. So, if your kid gets a hold of your gun and shoots himself? Whose fault is it??? Anyone ? Who said "gun"?

 

[longerlastingnoob]

Lets try this again. There is no crime in being a " potential murderer". And with gun ownership comes a piece of personal responsibility, that mite hard for many to understand these days . But "personal responsibility" means accepting the decisions you make and accepting the consequences good or bad. So, if your kid gets a hold of your gun and shoots himself? Whose fault is it??? Anyone ? Who said "gun"?

Who are you protecting yourself from with these guns?

 

[namsokiek]

Again, very well put Sherlock...but don't you think you are over complicating things? It has already been established that the perpetrator had been supplied the gun by his father.

As a kid, we used to make "copper bombs" out of a bit of copper pipe, weedkiller and sugar...weapons are easy to make if you have the knowledge...that's not my point. There's no reason to plan and execute an assassination if the deadly weapon is placed in your hands because of your freedom to "defend yourself".

Here is another great example of poorely connected thoughs. You foolishly connect having a deadly weapon in one's hands is a reason to plan and execute an assasination. I am not asserting this connection, the second ammendment does not make the connection; right now you are the only one silly enough to suggest that owning a weapon might be a reason to commit murder.

 

[Pegasus]

Ok this is a thing for the U.S. to sort out .
However I will tell of the Australian experience .
When gun laws were tightened the mass murder rate plummeted .
Yes people still died from being knifed, notably a woman went mad and killed her kids, but the overall effect on mass murder has been dramatic . Now mass murder in Australia is defined as more than 1 so the terrorist Man Monis is regarded as a mass murderer with 2 dead (3 if you include him ) . He somehow managed to get hold of a shotgun.

 

[ironaddict]

Lets say guns are illegal. If someone is goin to kill people anyways they wont care and will find them anyways. Heck ive even come across fully auto illegal firearms without even needing to search. Id rather they be legal so if some nutjob starts blasting people everyone and their grandma can shoot back.

 

[Party]

Just weird thought. But probably true. Which government is monitoring this thread right now? The CIA, the FBI, or the equivalent in the UK. If that ain't enough to make you run to gun store, nothin else will. Don't be afraid of your neighbor , be afraid of Big Brother. And I didn't mean any if that who ever is listening. I love my country.

 

[Party]

Who are you protecting yourself from with these guns?

You my friend are one of those who trust government blindly. Makes you feel safe, I'm sure the Jews living in Germany 1935 felt the Same way Same year Hitler made gun ownership illegal. Ironic

 

[akaTrex]

Nice! So, tough guy...you think that fruitcake would have been able to kill all those people with a fork?

Jim Jones Killed 909 people with Kool Aid!

Just Saying!

 

[islander]

I can't read the thread. I read the op and I agree. Bottom line. We are one. We are the world.

Everyone needs to "snitch". If you see a troubled person speak up. If you hear or see abuse. But in.
Don't be a by stander. I beg you if you are my neighbor and I scream and the next day I have a black eye call the cops.
If your child tells you about a weird kid at school report it.
These things that are happening don't happen overnight.
Guns are not the problem. Heart ache, abuse, mental illness, desperation. All those words that describe signs cause this.
This is horror. . Tragic. It's too much. Rip.

Ps. Can you believe the families so soon forgave him. Amazing. They are already to that point. That's faith. They are not giving him evil or evil doers any power. Beautiful.
I would hope id get there, to that point to forgive. But can't imagine this quick. Amazing really.

Just my thoughts...

 

[longerlastingnoob]

You my friend are one of those who trust government blindly. Makes you feel safe, I'm sure the Jews living in Germany 1935 felt the Same way Same year Hitler made gun ownership illegal. Ironic

I'm not asking "who" as in there's nobody going to hurt you. I'm asking who specifically.

 

[Party]

I've been as a loss, trying to collect my thoughts over the tragic events in Charleston and elsewhere. This psychopath wanted to start a racewar, he wanted to pit black against white and have us at each others throats. Let's not give this TERRORIST, even that benefit. I want you to go hug your friends and neighbors, regardless if they're black, white, gay, straight, police, "thug", Asian, native american, Latino, furry or brony. We are one human family and it's the only one we have and we can't let a few dysfunctional members spoil the gift that is the human experience for all.

dhusky, I m sorry for your loss This is personal for you being so close. Some how I allowed myself to be sucked into a political discussion about gun control with others outside the country. Without reading your OP. I apologize my thoughts and prayers are with you and the victims and families of this tragedy.

 

[longerlastingnoob]

Okay I need to go bed. Last post.
Party. You said i'm convicting before the crime, by saying that people need to be checked so that potential criminals, or criminals with no prior convictions, can own a gun.
When you bring a gun into your home who are you protecting yourself / family from? Criminals, are they out there? Of course they are, why would you own a gun if they weren't.
Who are they? You don't know, could be anyone, could be a guy who went and got a gun, under the pretence that it was to protect his family, but used it to break into your house, scare you and take whatever he could. Could be your neighbour. Could be anyone.
By owning a gun you are, by your logic, "convicting before the crime".

 

[Tamora]

This is a multi-level approach to your inconsistently applied assumptions that are the foundation of your arguments. People often wonder why some American's love the right to own a gun. Quite like a lot of American's wonder why some in the UK are so enamored about the Royal family, a lineage rife with inbreeding and violence yet revered and beloved well beyond their contribution to society.

My post is an attempt to help you understand why we love the "right to bear arms". No one has bothered to explain the love of the royals to me.

I truly believe that your observations are made out of ignorance and a lack of understanding of constitutional law and history as well as a perceived intent to assume that no other has a grasp of rhetoric than you. It is also true to assume that some of your observations make no sense at all to the masses, either written or verbally. (In other words...verbal diarrhea). Contribution to a debate heartfelt by many has been diminished by your irritated demeanor.

However, I feel I am obliged to persist in my endeavor and educate you in the proper etiquette of debate. Thus, ignorance aside, I wish you well in your undertakings of your education in the hope that you will be enlightened.

 

[somebodyelse]

I posted my "feelings" on it in the Rant thread.

One sentence pretty much sums up everything I feel.

 

[BigO]

Glad you posted that Party. I was just reading through, wondering how a heartfelt statement of sorrow spurred an argumentative thread on rights of gun ownership.

A bit like family argueing over possessions at a funeral before the casket is closed.

It's all relevant. Unfortunately, background checks typically don't see ignorance or malicious intent. Anger or hurt makes people do stupid things. Guns are inanimate, and can't tell if the holder is defending, or attacking. And the very Constitution that gives these rights, is seldom adhered to in the smallest of endeavors. Can't trust people with the big, if they can't be trusted with the small. It, or religious teachings, are not supposed to just be pulled up when conveniently applicable.

History is great. But if we don't learn from the past, we have gained nothing. Repeating the same over and over, and expecting different is insanity (says Einstein). If we used the same logic in our medical and science fields, the human race would be in sad shape right now.

So, maybe....just maybe...if we cared as much for humans themselves, as the inanimate rights for them, we might get somewhere.

This was about a terrible loss, intended to cause disruption and bitterness. And it was lost sight of for...


May the victims and their families find peace.