WWIII and the economy

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Is world war the only way to fix the global economy? If so, what will be the end result with respect to sovereign nations?

As per the theory of the Fourth Turning, America is due for war on its 80 year cycle (1785, 1865, 1945, ~2025).

Mitt Romney's speech tonight was loaded with rhetoric indicating a willingness and even an eagerness to go to war with countries in the Middle East.
 

Heat97

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I think theyre gona attack Iran after elections. Im not sure what theyre gona do..

But china and russia already sent troops to iran/ they said they will defend iran. Thats pretty much WWIII

It worrys me alot.
 

mrwalker

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it is true that war is a great economic stimulus but really there must be a better way to get the economy going other than starting a war ... its only money after all its not worth a single life much less thousands or millions. just remember kids only the rich get richer during a war the rest are just canon fodder
 

arkham

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I think theyre gona attack Iran after elections. Im not sure what theyre gona do..

But china and russia already sent troops to iran/ they said they will defend iran. Thats pretty much WWIII

It worrys me alot.

That would be actually WWIV, WWIII would be Iraq. World war is something more than just attacking one country. Trust me we in Poland have experience with that ;] But on the other hand it may lead to a greater conflict. Frankly speaking I thought that the first conflict would be China vs. Russia.

Maybe I shouldnt take voice in this thread as Rommney mentioned my country?
 

fmylife

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War is NOT an economic stimulus, that is a terrible myth. War can ONLY hurt the economy and destroy wealth, anyone who says otherwise should be ignored due to their lack of economic understanding. War is a perfect example of the broken window fallacy which goes something like this... A child throws a rock through the window of a bakery, people then claim that this is good for the economy since it means the glazier now put to work making a new window for the baker. This is the part that is seen. But of course this is not the whole story. The baker has to now buy a replacement window, meaning he has to divert resources that might have gone to a tailor but instead goes to the glacier. SO instead of have a new suit, all he has is a new window. The suit doesn't get made now, meaning the tailor has lost out (though he doesn't know it) and society is now poorer by one suit. This is the unseen. Resources were used to make the glass that should never have been used if it were not for the vandal, so society is made worse off.

Now lets look at war. War is basically a gigantic stone destroying not just a window but entire cities. Wealth must then be spent to rebuild the cities after war as opposed to if the war never happened society would still have the cities intact but the wealth would be spent on other things, like cars, boats, clothes, investments etc. Resources during a war are diverted to building bombs and tanks which do not make society wealthier. Metals and labor that may have been used to build a bridge or skyscraper are now used to build a bomb. The bridge and skyscraper are a benefit to society and make society wealthier by improving productivity and efficiency and serving the needs of the market, the bomb on the other hand serves no purpose but to destroy bridges and skyscrapers and destroy wealth by blowing things up or preventing productive production from every taking place. Of course war also kills human beings which besides being terrible on its face also means a net economic loss as it reduces the total labor productivity in the market, destroys the knowledge base in society and creates smaller markets than before.

So please don't ever think that war is somehow good for the economy, it may be good for those in the munitions industry but it is bad for the economy and society as a whole and can only destroy wealth, never build it.
 
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malehanger

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You're right. WAR is not a stimulus. It's the industries of war which stimulate the economy. Those billion dollar air craft carriers, the aircraft themselves, bullets, "bandaids", "beans" (supplies for troops) and everyone who works to build these items which otherwise go unused...or at least not used for their intended purposes when we are not at war. I agree though, war and the war industry are not the only ways to stimulate the economy.
 

fmylife

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You're right. WAR is not a stimulus. It's the industries of war which stimulate the economy. Those billion dollar air craft carriers, the aircraft themselves, bullets, "bandaids", "beans" (supplies for troops) and everyone who works to build these items which otherwise go unused...or at least not used for their intended purposes when we are not at war. I agree though, war and the war industry are not the only ways to stimulate the economy.
Not true. These do not "stimulate" the economy either, they simply divert resources to an unproductive use. Like I said, you are diverting resources (metals, plastics, factories, labor etc.) for aircraft/bullets etc that would have been or could have been used for productive means. To add to this, the government is taking wealth out of the economy through taxing, borrowing or inflating (now from many companies and people who are not producing wealth but instead have been diverted to non-wealth producing activities) to pay for the war, so all the money being spent on the war machine is simply money being diverted, once again, from productive uses to unproductive uses. These supposed industries that have been "stimulated" only got "stimulated" because the government's war DE-stimulated other sectors of the economy through diverting resources, changing factories from car manufacturing to tank manufacturing etc. There can never be a NET benefit, economically, from a war (and war industries), it will ALWAYS be an economic net loss.
 

fmylife

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Is world war the only way to fix the global economy? If so, what will be the end result with respect to sovereign nations?

As per the theory of the Fourth Turning, America is due for war on its 80 year cycle (1785, 1865, 1945, ~2025).

Mitt Romney's speech tonight was loaded with rhetoric indicating a willingness and even an eagerness to go to war with countries in the Middle East.

Whether it is Obama or Romney, you can count on a war, as completely unnecessary, wasteful, immoral and idiotic as it may be.
 

Cya at 8

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It comes down to our protectionism of Israel. Israel will strike Iran on its own and cause total war in the middle-east unless we take the lead. It's pretty much assured that we will bomb Iran in the next few years.
 

IHaveAHugeNick

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War only stimulates big business money. The government goes deep into the red to pay for all that stuff. Those loans from the banks are the reason there is a debt. Spending more each year than what you bring in, means there is a deficit. So, the Government raises taxes and finds other creative ways to take more money from you, so they can get out of a deficit and make more than they spend. Then they have to actually try and pay down that debt to the banks.

Big business is the only winner in a war. People die. Get displaced. Families loose members. And we and our children pay (money) for it for decades after.
 

Nihilanth

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True. Most of you here didn't have to see/hear/smell what usually goes on in war. I did a little bit as a kid. Yugoslav war was a setup. Leaders of warring sides were enjoying themselves together while people were dying.
 

Thrill Drill

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Yeah, Iran is fucked. That's for sure ..

It's a shame really. I've met many an Iranian who have told me that they, along with the majority of their native countrymen, have a very strong hatred for their fundamentalist Islamic government and would love nothing more that to see it get overturned. A lot of people have this misconception about Iran, where they think that the Persians are all hard-core Muslims hell-bent on waging war with the western world, when nothing could be further from the truth. It's their government that is fucked up, as well as all the high-ranking Mullahs in their midst, who are really the only thing we ever see coming out of Iran on TV.

The younger generation as I understand is very anti-establishment and the Iranians that I have spoken to have told me that the best thing the west can do is avoid war and instead empower the young people to rise up and let their voices be heard and stand up for what they know is right because one day the youth will come into power and that is the day that Islamic Republican goes to the grave, hopefully forever.
 

fmylife

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It's a shame really. I've met many an Iranian who have told me that they, along with the majority of their native countrymen, have a very strong hatred for their fundamentalist Islamic government and would love nothing more that to see it get overturned. A lot of people have this misconception about Iran, where they think that the Persians are all hard-core Muslims hell-bent on waging war with the western world, when nothing could be further from the truth. It's their government that is fucked up, as well as all the high-ranking Mullahs in their midst, who are really the only thing we ever see coming out of Iran on TV.
The younger generation as I understand is very anti-establishment and the Iranians that I have spoken to have told me that the best thing the west can do is avoid war and instead empower the young people to rise up and let their voices be heard and stand up for what they know is right because one day the youth will come into power and that is the day that Islamic Republican goes to the grave, hopefully forever.

Yeah, the people or Iran are the ones that will be affected by sanctions and war, and they are normal human beings like any one of us. But it also isn't like their government is evil (though I tend to think every government is evil) or hell bent on waging war either. Assuming they are trying to get a nuclear weapon (which hasn't been proven) it is clearly for defensive and negotiational purposes, not to be used to take out Israel or any BS like that our politicians or media love to try and say. Any government in their shoes would do the same thing. But Americans love to hate Iranians because they happen to have the same skin tone as the guys who flew plains into the twin towers, ignoring the fact that they are Persians and not at all the same. Hopefully Americans wake up and see through the propaganda before our politicians go and get us into another unnecessary, immoral war.