I'm a bit curious if anyone here at PEGym does any rowing? I row in university, and it's a rarity to find anyone who understands the sport, let alone participates. Do please throw a shout-out!
Anyone into Rowing?
- Thread starter Bravo
- Start date
vulcan
Retired Moderator, PE Gym Editor, PEGym Hero
The school I went to had a very good rowing team, but I never did it as I played rugby & nobody did both it seemed.
I love Concept 2 rowing machines for Cardio if at a gym.
I love Concept 2 rowing machines for Cardio if at a gym.
That's a good point. I hardly ever see anyone that's into rowing in the south, though there are a good number in the west these days. As for not making it the whole semester, it feels like that often happens. It's a very different feeling, and i half suspect it's because of how much time people do spend on the Concept 2. You're a rare one vulcan, i've only heard of a few people actually enjoying the erg, and they're usually a bit crazy. I'm jealous, if anything!
Funny thing, did you see that Concept 2 recently came out with a X-Country Skiing Erg?
Funny thing, did you see that Concept 2 recently came out with a X-Country Skiing Erg?
vulcan
Retired Moderator, PE Gym Editor, PEGym Hero
That's a point Bravo, I should have said that I see the benefit/admire the machine rather than like doing it!
I only ever do 2000m as fast as I can.
I only ever do 2000m as fast as I can.
Six minutes of pure bliss. I remember hearing some statistic that rowing a 2k is much the same anaerobically as two consecutive basketball games. I have to think you a bit of a masochist then! Though the idea of only doing 2ks on the erg is a bit daunting. I feel like i would associate the machine with horrible things even more so than i do now!
I have to wonder if you deadlift?
I have to wonder if you deadlift?
it is... my back and quads got jacked up from it. in a good way. i don't know the type of row machine you mean, but all the ones i've seen use a cable on a wheel with a sliding seat type thing.... adjustable resistance etc.
i find that any machine that uses cables is sub par. gravity is what you need. cables = waste of time*
* most times. there are a small few exercises i will use them for (one arm tricep type stuff)
i find that any machine that uses cables is sub par. gravity is what you need. cables = waste of time*
* most times. there are a small few exercises i will use them for (one arm tricep type stuff)
Well, the rowing machine Vulcan and I are talking about is the Concept 2, and it's exactly as you say. While i do agree with you that cables are less effective than free weights, the general fact is that an ergometer (as those rowing machines are called) is about the closest thing you can get to exercising the rowing movement. The adjustable resistance really only ever stays around a 4 or a 5 (about that of water). People who set the thing to ten and crank at it are really just trying to hurt themselves.
I can understand though, cables do annoy me to...
I can understand though, cables do annoy me to...
i feel like there could be a much better design for it. rather than one handle, there should clearly by 2, and they should have more of an elliptical motion. the design with one cable pulling from the center doesnt account for the angle you need to take to get the oar in the water... if that makes any sense. the cable pulls just as hard no matter the height of the handle. you could pull to your belly button or chin. you cant do that with water. a pair of resistance elliptical on either side with independent handles would be far superior . then again im no engineer.
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I do agree with everything you're saying, but independent handles, while amazing for sculling, would possibly detriment sweep rowers. I really like your idea of the resistance being higher as you pull in higher. That's really interesting and makes a lot of sense. Though i imagine it would be really hard to make something personalized on such a generic, everyone-on-the-team-hop-on kind of machine.
But much the same as you, i'm no engineer either.
But much the same as you, i'm no engineer either.
vulcan
Retired Moderator, PE Gym Editor, PEGym Hero
I am sure I saw someone in a film using an ergo with independent handles, might have imagined it. Think it was in the film Skulls.
Bravo - I used to do dead-lifts, but currently I am doing Convict Conditioning, still got a fair way to go before I can do the pistol squat though. I absolutely love Convict Conditioning, it has reawakened my love of training.
Bravo - I used to do dead-lifts, but currently I am doing Convict Conditioning, still got a fair way to go before I can do the pistol squat though. I absolutely love Convict Conditioning, it has reawakened my love of training.
Ah, The Skulls. I think you're right. If i'm not mistaken that's the one where they lose a rower but still win the race. An interesting idea.
I have convict conditioning somewhere! It's a fantastic read as far as progressions go, and i really enjoy some of the alternative exercises at the end of each section. The squat progression is really interesting, and they work quite well! I can't seem to manage the stand to stand bridge or the one-armed handstand pushup, but with time perhaps (wouldn't that be exciting). The idea of having only a basketball for necessary materials is fantastic i think.
I hear there is a sequel in the works that entails a meal-plan and general nutrition guide, alongside some other juicy tidbits.
I have convict conditioning somewhere! It's a fantastic read as far as progressions go, and i really enjoy some of the alternative exercises at the end of each section. The squat progression is really interesting, and they work quite well! I can't seem to manage the stand to stand bridge or the one-armed handstand pushup, but with time perhaps (wouldn't that be exciting). The idea of having only a basketball for necessary materials is fantastic i think.
I hear there is a sequel in the works that entails a meal-plan and general nutrition guide, alongside some other juicy tidbits.
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I rowed in HS for a very good program; did a lot of erg work in college, but haven't been on the water for years. Crew programs are growing in the US largely because of Title IX. Unlike wrestling or football which are male, a crew program can balance out the scholarships between genders. It is great exercise, but I ultimately switched to a bike for cardio because it was easier to access biking spots v. water access; and time issues. And yes, the Concept II is a great piece of equipment.
Vukcan mentioned convict conditioning, which is a great bodyweight program. In my opinion, it is second only to gymnastics strength work. Get a set of rings and hang them from a beam, make a set of parallettes from pvc, and that's all you need. A gym for about a $100. You can do virtually any strength exercise on rings and parallettes. Beastskills and gymnasticsodies.com are both great free websites to get you started. After a couple of years of dedicated practice, I can do pistols, muscle ups, oac, hspu, front and back levers, planche, L-sits, and most basic gymnastics strength holds. I'm also a big fan of rope climbing if you have any available.
Vulcan. for pistols, start working in a doorway; and spend some time in a static position down in the hole. Literally, just get down in the position and stay there for a few minutes while keeping your balance holding lightly against the door. I also like the rings for pistols because you can use the excess strap to help guide you down for negatives. Pistols are part strength and part trick. It's all about positioning your upper body center of gravity well forward of your pushing foot. You also need to keep your core tight, and I almost squeeze my barrel leg against my knee in the bottom position to stay balanced. Once you've got the balance and trick to it down, they become fairly easy to do. You may also want to hold a light weight in front of you, it will help you lean forward while working down. Always do them in bare feet because you need to use your toes to balance. beastskills gives you a pretty good progression. The same is true for muscle ups, which, imho, are the upper body version of pistols. It's all about positioning your upper body forward when you transition from the upper portion of the pull up to the bottom of the dip.
Good luck and have fun.
Vukcan mentioned convict conditioning, which is a great bodyweight program. In my opinion, it is second only to gymnastics strength work. Get a set of rings and hang them from a beam, make a set of parallettes from pvc, and that's all you need. A gym for about a $100. You can do virtually any strength exercise on rings and parallettes. Beastskills and gymnasticsodies.com are both great free websites to get you started. After a couple of years of dedicated practice, I can do pistols, muscle ups, oac, hspu, front and back levers, planche, L-sits, and most basic gymnastics strength holds. I'm also a big fan of rope climbing if you have any available.
Vulcan. for pistols, start working in a doorway; and spend some time in a static position down in the hole. Literally, just get down in the position and stay there for a few minutes while keeping your balance holding lightly against the door. I also like the rings for pistols because you can use the excess strap to help guide you down for negatives. Pistols are part strength and part trick. It's all about positioning your upper body center of gravity well forward of your pushing foot. You also need to keep your core tight, and I almost squeeze my barrel leg against my knee in the bottom position to stay balanced. Once you've got the balance and trick to it down, they become fairly easy to do. You may also want to hold a light weight in front of you, it will help you lean forward while working down. Always do them in bare feet because you need to use your toes to balance. beastskills gives you a pretty good progression. The same is true for muscle ups, which, imho, are the upper body version of pistols. It's all about positioning your upper body forward when you transition from the upper portion of the pull up to the bottom of the dip.
Good luck and have fun.
These ergs exist, but they are very expensive. Some colleges have them. The design I've seen uses an oar, weight and a flywheel. Back in my day, about 25 years ago, the junior national team would conduct preliminary tests with these type of machines; and there were also some air piston machines out there as well, but they were static resistance. In other words, each pull was like hitting dead water. The flywheel type gave you more of the feeling of trying to maintain momentum through the water as opposed to just . For most gyms and schools, you can't beat a concept 2 in terms of efficiency and cost. I mean you can buy 20 concept 2s for what a more sophisticated erg would cost. There are also the old fashioned crew tanks where you pull an oar with a hole in it in a standing tank of water. I'm sure that technology has advanced where the ergs are far more sophisticated, but again, the whole appeal of crew is lots of people working out, as opposed to basketball where 5 are playing at a time, maybe 12 during a practice. Standing around waiting for one dedicated sophisticated erg station just doesn't give you the same bang as 20 concept 2s. Once water training starts, the crew has to start getting it together, and with good coaching the technique comes. The concept 2 will give you the base fitness so that the kids can start improving their technique as soon as they get on the water instead of building wind.
vulcan
Retired Moderator, PE Gym Editor, PEGym Hero
Thanks for the tips on pistols dsmall, I am going to take the advice about using the doorway because the basketball alone is difficult.
I need to loose some more weight to get to the end stages of convict conditioning, but it is making me stronger than I have ever been - muscles feel hard 24/7.
I have worked out that I need to leave around 4 or 5 days between pistol work to recover.
NB; The ergo in 'Skulls' looks really archaic, just looked at it on you-tube trailer.
I need to loose some more weight to get to the end stages of convict conditioning, but it is making me stronger than I have ever been - muscles feel hard 24/7.
I have worked out that I need to leave around 4 or 5 days between pistol work to recover.
NB; The ergo in 'Skulls' looks really archaic, just looked at it on you-tube trailer.
my problem with convict conditioning and a lot of the other bodyweight programs that rely upon reps galore is that it overstresses the weakest joint in the movement. For example, with a conventional pushup, the weakest joint is the hyperflexed wrist. The more load you add to the movement, the more stress you apply to that wrist. You can't add more load to a conventional pushup without adding additional load on that wrist. And the reps start to overstress the weak wrist in a hyperflexed position. At 45 y/o, it means I develop carpal tunnell symptoms long before I succeed in exhausting the major muscles of the chest and arms. With rings, you don't hyperflex the wrist so you can decrease the leverage of almost any movement, i.e. make it harder, without exerting additional load on the weak point. An example is bulgarian dips on rings where you are literally doing very wide grip dips while maintainin good wrist position. The same is true for a pull up because your wrist is not fixed relative to the bar. The rings rotate so you can keep the wrist straight and work the bigger muscle groups. You can also do straight arm work, i.e ring flys, early cross training, that load major muscles tremendously without any additional loads on the wrist. For the same reason, I like parallettes because I can keep the wrists in a comfortable position while doing hspu. At a minimum, get good push up stands and a pull up bar where you can vary your grips. Again, the nice thing with rings is that the exercise itself is harder because you literally have to stabilize yourself while doing the exercise, but there is less stress on small joints like wrist, elbows, etc.
If you are in your 20s, you might not develop these repetitive stress injuries as easily, but they will catch up with you.
