The whole "Nice Guy" and "Bad Boy" debate

[UKGuy]

The problem I see is that you're obssessing on this WAY too much.............to the point where it's messing with your psychy. You're not approaching women because your afraid they'll see you as nothing more than a friend. That's your problem dude. You've already gotten this preconceived notion in your head as to the outcome of any meeting you have with a woman and that blows your chances. I'd say you are being your own worst enemy at this point. I'm not going to tell you what you NEED to do, rather, I'm going to make a suggestion. Stop this nonsense stuff man, it's killing your chances. I don't know how to approach women, I just make conversation and bamo, things just take off from there. I'm not looking to get laid or even for a relationship, I've already got a gf.........a relationship that mind you literally fell into my lap without me doing so much as sh*t to get it. My last relationship started out as a FWB situation and ended up me not wanting to share her with any other guy so I ended up in a committed relationship whereby I was getting laid just about every day for 15 straight months. It was great, but it ended. Not because I fucked up, but because she fucked up. And this relationship I got into because I was introduced to this woman by a mutual friend of both of ours that I happened to work with and she knew my character and the kind of guy I was (little did I know she was setting me up with a nut job but you live and learn........at least the sex was frequent and awesome!!)

Have you seen the thread somewhere on this forum about "the secret"?? You should seriously consider putting that into practice because I think "the secret" could totally benefit you here my brotha. It's all about thinking and being positive, setting your sights on what you want and letting the laws of attraction do the rest. Think about it buddy.

Yeah I think I am becoming too needy for women their approval, seeing if any women respond to me etc. I do think sometimes women are put off by me because I maybe sending out needy vibes. Right now I am just trying to better myself,. Continue to work on myself by working out (weight lifting) , reading and finding more events to attend and generally being more social in general. I have realized that I don't make real friends easily (more like aquaintances) so therefore I am working on just being a social guy getting to know others and not thinking about women so much. I know my attitude sucks but I am working to change that and I know I am the problem I don't blame others for my issues. Also I know at times I feel like others will make me happy, women will make me happy I need them to make me happy. They won't as cheesy as it sounds you really do need to love yourself and find happiness inside yourself not through others people.

Thank you everyone for your advice.

 

[4toX]

If you are reading pickup material, I would first suggest you STOP. Pickup CAN work, but for most of us, it goes agaisnt our values. I discovered this material extremely early on in my life, and everytime I would interact with girls, I would always anaylze things. (Although I tend to analyze many things, this is part of my personsality).

If you do not already have a hobby, find one. Something that you are passionate about. It helps.

I used to be like you, always being depressed about how nice guys lose, and bad guys win. Stop giving a sh*t, it's a waste of time. Just realize that's how it is. If you are not happy about it, you can either accept it or DO SOMETHING about it.

Stop acting aloof. Just talk to girls like any other guy. Experiment. Just talk about anything.

Happiness comes and goes, embrace the good moments AND the bad ones. This is life. Realize that no matter what happens, you have the ability to do something about it.

I used to be a veryyyyy verrrry verrrry nice guy. But was I a nice guy because I was truly a nice guy? Or was I simply afraid? Think about it.

 

[DRXXXTASY]

I've always have been the nice guy and it has worked for me very well!! Behind close doors its a different story; im into BDSM and role playing so I do have a wild side but I keep it on the low. So when it comes out its a real surprise! What i'm gettin at is being a nice guy is perfectly alright as long as you can take charge and be aggressive where it counts.

You're not a nice guy if you're into BDSM. lol The typical nice guy rarely get's the girl because they're viewed by women as male girlfriends and loose attraction that they initially have for him as time passes because of it. As far as the pickup artist info, some is good if only to help you gain confidence in conversing with women you feel you have no chance at all in getting/attracting.

 

[NSF001]

You're not a nice guy if you're into BDSM. lol

Amen! The concept of niceness should remain independent of strength or confidence. Niceness should come as a "choice", in some sense as opposed to simply "I am born nice".

 

[Mc Dong]

Don't read pick up artist crap. Yes, it works, but women can see through it. It's fake. Don't pretend to be someone else.

The best way to pick up a pretty girl is to NOT treat her like a smoking hot chic that makes your knees tremble. Instead, look at her as your oldest friend, the one that you can laugh with/at and completely be yourself with. Once you let down the "cool guy, pick up chics attitude", then you can relax and the whole situation is that much less stressful.

If its at a bar or party, then walk up and introduce yourself. No games. Just be relaxed. Once you break the ice, ask HER questions about what she likes. It's easier to listen and smile/laugh then to talk and put on a show. If you are nerdy, then talk about needy stuff. If she bites, then you have a common interest. If she doesn't, then switch topics by asking her a few questions that require her opinion. Hell.. even make a joke about how nerdy you are and laugh about it. It's really that easy.

As for Nice Guy vs. Bad Boy. I know that a nice guy with a spine/balls/opinions that require character will generally beat the Bad Boy attitude. To me, a nice guy is a pushover and doesn't take a stand. He gets walked over. Yeah, he's nice because he puts everyone else's needs/wants ahead of his own.

Be nice. Have manners. Look her in the eyes. Smile. Talk with confidence. This is the description of a great guy. The great guy every girl wants. Its a little bit of nice guy and bad boy blended together.

It all starts on the inside.

That's my over 30, did well with the ladies perspective.

MD

 

[TurtleProblems]

In my experience I've found being neither worked for me. I've always just pretended to be on the quiet side around women, and it usually works in my favor.

 

[vankush]

Girls like it when a guy takes charge and know what they want, and that's easier to see in "bad boys." I think girls see nice guys and assume they're doormats rather than giving us a chance.

When I would hang out with one of my friends-that-is-a-girl this summer, she ended up just making me choose where we went and what we did, even if it was as simple as picking a bench to sit on in a park, because she thought I was too nice. She loved that I treated girls kindly, but she just wanted me to buck-up and take charge of the situation. After that happened she seemed way more attracted to me.

 

[vankush]

Also, I think we get too caught up in how the label's we carry might attract girls. Any girl that's worth being with isn't gonna care about that and is just gonna want you to be yourself.

 

[MrBigDick]

Girls like it when a guy takes charge and know what they want, and that's easier to see in "bad boys." I think girls see nice guys and assume they're doormats rather than giving us a chance.

When I would hang out with one of my friends-that-is-a-girl this summer, she ended up just making me choose where we went and what we did, even if it was as simple as picking a bench to sit on in a park, because she thought I was too nice. She loved that I treated girls kindly, but she just wanted me to buck-up and take charge of the situation. After that happened she seemed way more attracted to me.

I think there is this whole assumption that "nice guys" are "male girl friends". It is very possible for a guy to be nice but also stand his ground in terms of what he is and isn't willing to put up with. The lady I'm currently with likes the fact that I don't tell her what to do, I don't order her around and I don't treat her like crap. On the flip side, because she spends so much time making decisions for herself and her adult, special needs son, she likes it that when we go into the bedroom, I give out the orders as to what is going to be done and she does what she's told. She LOVES that. But, it's because she spends so much time having to make decisions in her everyday life that when it comes to bedroom activity, she likes it that she doesn't have to decide what's going to take place and that I'll take over and make those decisions.

You can be nice but assertive at the same time WITHOUT coming across like an asswipe. I also don't believe there is a direct answer to this question.

 

[wind chill]

boy boy? wtf?
you mean bad boy

 

[Batwoman]

boy boy? wtf?
you mean bad boy

Huh?

 

[John Trenor]

Yeah, you definitely don't want to be someone you're not.

There's nothing wrong with being a good guy. In fact, it works to your advantage most times. Some (un-sane) girls that want the "bad boy" really want excitement, and they may even continue looking for it when in a relationship.

That said, I also think that guys often fall into the either-or trap when considering what women are attracted to. You have to consider why sane women may be attracted to the "bad boy". Are they really attracted to the bad-boy, or something about the way he carries himself?

In my experience, I have found that initial attraction in all women is triggered by confidence: the positive essence of the bad-boy, hehe. And, you can be confident and a good guy.

I'm not talking about fake confidence, but about simple things like making eye contact, relaxing back as opposed to leaning forward, standing up straight, and having engaging conversations as opposed to trying to convince woman of all your good qualities, etc. Here's a great article with tips on how to be confident while not changing who you are.

My point is that you shouldn't change who you are, but you should improve yourself, and that doesn't make you a bad boy

 

[Sanok]

from my perspective women want the strong man, which lead the relationship not the otherway arround. Women like to be lead not to be leading. And to be treated with respect in the living room and the sluty way in the bedroom.
The problem with the " nice guys" are that they fall in "love" too quickly and takes away from women the fun to conquer them and to teach them how to love.In other words they like to always conquer the men and " teach " em to love them( that is earn their respect).

P.S. always be congruent with what you say and what you do, women notice that instantly

 

[John Trenor]

The problem with the " nice guys" are that they fall in "love" too quickly and takes away from women the fun to conquer them and to teach them how to love.

Yeah, you have to be a challenge. One good reason is that when the girl feels that she had to fight for you, she feels like she invested into the whole "project" and won't want to abandon that investment.

Still, I think that being a challenge, or having a girl feel like she needs to teach you how to love, isn't necessarily the same as oozing the "bad-boy" persona.

 

[Going411x7]

All you can be is just who you are. Women spot a phony in a wink's eye. Just be yourself.

 

[Dea7h7rap 101]

You dont want to be seen as either by women. A "nice guy" is a friend, someone she can talk to and not feel threatened/pressure by. A "bad boy" is someone who she may be attracted to, but nothing serious will ever come out of it, because bad boys dont get long term relationships. The best way to spark attraction in a woman is to be different than all of the guys that hit on her. Instead of taking the nice approach of "Hey there, you are beautiful, can I take you out some time" or the bad boy approach of "hey there chick, wanna come hop on me and make some babies?" you need to take a route inbetween. Teasing is one of the best ways to get attraction to spark in a woman. Not mean teasing, or truthful teasing, but just stuff that makes her look at you like "wow I really want to hit him, but at the same time I want to laugh" I call this cocky funny. It is an arrogant statement that gets humor sprinkled on it.

For example - You are out mini golfing with your girl, and she just cannot put the ball in the hole. A statement like "oh my heck, if you dont get that thing in there I am going to grow a beard, die, and then glare at you from the otherworld". This is cocky, but in a funny way, she will often laugh with you, and sparks should fly. Dont be a nice guy wussy that gives the girl all of the control in the relationship, because then you come across as needy and girls are not attracted to needy guys.

Bottom line - Be funny, outgoing, and dont let a woman walk all over you. You have got to be a man, and tease her a little bit, but in a good way. Hope you like what I wrote, because I have had great success with women this way, and all of my friends have as well. Good luck!

 

[Batwoman]

All you can be is just who you are. Women spot a phony in a wink's eye. Just be yourself.

I totally agree with this.
All the posing is just silliness.

 

[DryJelq]

You can be a nice guy, you just have to make dirty jokes, tease them, and give them a hard time, all in good fun. Being an asshole is more just the way people flirt with each other.

I remember when I was in second grade, this girl would walk up to me and punch me in the arm. The adults around me said she did it because she liked me and didn't know how to express it. People are instinctively aggressive towards those they are attracted to. You just gotta learn how to flirt. It's all about breaking the ice. Being a little bit of a dick is sometimes a good way to get them to laugh and show em you got some personality. That's what it's all about really. Girls just want a confident man that makes them laugh and smile. Nice girls that are looking for a real relationship want a nice guy.

Dumb young cunts, just want the asshole. So if you are looking to fuck some dumb young cunts, be as much of an asshole as you want.

 

[Beast92]

It seems that I have found a replica of myself . I feel your pain UK.

Also, I'm sure you are on the skinnier side, my overweight qualities decimate my chances.

 

[Sanok]

Yeah, you have to be a challenge. One good reason is that when the girl feels that she had to fight for you, she feels like she invested into the whole "project" and won't want to abandon that investment.

Still, I think that being a challenge, or having a girl feel like she needs to teach you how to love, isn't necessarily the same as oozing the "bad-boy" persona.

I meant it like to teach to love them, because " bad boys" never are in love they are just for fun, i don't know how to explain it properly. Its like taming the devil for them and teaching how to love them..