What else don't you know? You have to wonder...

[Big Al]

quote tpw.
In its simplest form, NLP is how we use the language of the mind to consistently achieve our specific and desired outcomes – whatever they may be.

unquote
Integrity is so limited in the world, sleazy underhanded uses of course predominate . In fact to such an extent I have never seen the word integrity used in connection with nlp.

Language is programming- especially the English language.

From https://www.pegym.com/forums/relationship-forum/41934-nice-dont-get-laid-5.html#post481668:

...our language has elements of duality and ambiguity that can make things unclear. Consider the following definitions of the word "meek"- courtesy of merriam-webster.com:

1. enduring injury with patience and without resentment : mild

2. deficient in spirit and courage : submissive

3. Not violent or strong : moderate

You'll note that one definition seems to contradict the other- consider how definition 1 reflects the word meek as defining true strength and wisdom in being able to control yourself in situations that would [for many] be an excuse for a reaction based on violence; whereas definitions 2 & 3 implies that meekness connotes a lack of strength. You can also see in the above example how easily language itself can be manipulated over time to change our very thoughts.

Our language is full of these and other types of confusing subconscious examples (consider the homophones "prey" & "pray", "prophet" and "profit")...

 

[Gspot]

Home - Mars One

First attempt at human settlement on Mars, 2023
Here's your chance to have the biggest dick on the planet!

I love my dick. I love women. I love sex. But I would cut my dick off if it meant I could go on this trip!

The more one learns, the more one should realize just how deep their ignorance truly is. The most important information there is is that which you don't know you don't know.

Adopting a more humble mindset can help you to better navigate the "abyss" of knowledge without driving yourself mad. That will also help you to develop the wisdom to handle and use the knowledge you've learned in the most beneficial and effective manner.

Nice Socratic question Danster579. The first question on the path to wisdom. If one is unable to see with clarity his abounding ignorance, he is an idiot; if he realizes his ignorance, he is a genius. Ignorance and suffering is the human condition. The pursuit of knowledge/enlightenment is the purpose of life (given human uncertainly, this is arguable of course).

In the spirit of aspiring to the heavens without sacrificing your member to the god of war, I offer these for anyone interested. I only link these particular books as they are rather popular, personal favorites, and state the premise simply: that what we perceive as reality, the phenomenal world, is impermanent and illusory. The "Real" lies beyond our perception and understanding. A long and very dense history of philosophy/theology has grappled with this lack of human perception and knowledge. Also, an honest look at the "New Physics" makes our experience of the cosmos even less certain, placing many of the insights of philosophy into the laboratory for debasement and material scrutiny. God does not fit in a box however, even one the size of the universe. Hopefully, Einstein is right that "God is subtle but he is not malicious."

Christianbook.com: Rumors of Another World: What on Earth Are We Missing? - eBook: Philip Yancey: 9780310565963

Quantum Questions: Mystical Writings of the World's Greatest Physicists: 9781570627682: : Books: Shambhala Publications

Science and the Akashic Field: An Integral Theory of Everything - Ervin Laszlo - Google Books

Philosophers Speak of God [978-1-57392-815-1] - $32.98 : Prometheus Books

Ultimately, as Socrates said, there is no understanding, only the pursuit of it. It may seem like we know allot, but what else do, not only you, I, they, or even the gods, but we all not know? Only almost everything. (Note mine and the common use of "God" and "gods" have very divergent meanings).

 

[TPW]

Back in the real world,(from what I have seen), nlp is most used by people like politicans, used car salesmen,relaotors ,management and pua. Now tell me, do you think they use tpw moral framework?

I am sure you do positive work Tpw , now if you can get other nlp practioners to abide by your 8 points the world will be a better place .
The politicans would be a good starting point.

Pegasus,

As I am sure you already know, each person has their own unique “model of the world” based on their individual life experiences, values, beliefs and judgments; making the concept of “reality” a completely subjective experience. So I ask you, when you refer to returning to the “real world”, would that be my “real world” or yours?

Also, just like doctors can only truly understand the processes and procedures of other doctors, I am sure you would agree, that only an individual with comprehensive knowledge of NLP would be able to know – with certainty – whether or not an individual was using it unethically. So when you say that people like politicians, used car salesmen, realtors, management and pua are using NLP with self-serving purposes or ill intent, how do you know – with certainty?

When you suggest that I should get other NLP practitioners to abide by the 8-point directive, isn't that, in fact doing exactly what you so vehemently oppose about NLP – manipulating others for personal gain? Even if that gain is perceived as “ethical” - it is still insisting that another adhere to our own “map of reality” whether they like it or not - which greatly opposes the NLP directive of "ALWAYS respecting another’s model of the world".

So by changing another NLP practitioner because we do not like what they are doing, would that not put another more "ethical" NLP practitioner into quite a principled predicament?

 

[Gspot]

Well, a bit elitist perhaps but :agree:. Certainly for "reality" see the books in my post above. But maybe this post needs a little lightening up.

So, uhh, you can manipulate my reality anytime thepassionatewife

 

[CaptainJohnson]

Back in the real world,(from what I have seen), nlp is most used by people like politicans, used car salesmen,relaotors ,management and pua. Now tell me, do you think they use tpw moral framework?

I am sure you do positive work Tpw , now if you can get other nlp practioners to abide by your 8 points the world will be a better place .
The politicans would be a good starting point.

Actually, a lot of therapists have delved into it as a tool to possibly augment their ability to connect to, and relate to, their patients. This includes social psychology subjects such as non-verbals, micro-expressions, vocal cues, lingusitic relativity, and speech perception.

Yes, NLP, as a pseudoscience, is gaining a lot of layman traction in sales and promotions, and has become a huge market, but NLP relates to a lot of previously established theories social psychologists already work with. I think the important thing is to consider the source from which one acquires such knowledge as well as having a healthy amount of skepticism mixed in with an open-mind. After all, a great scientist is a skeptic open to all possibilities.

Now in response to the OP: There is a lot i don't know. The more I learn, the more I realize this. I suggest making a bucket list. List everything you want to do or try. Add to the list whenever you get an idea, it doesn't matter how simple or grandiose the idea is. Each year, complete at least one thing on the list. When you are on your death bed decades from now (knock on wood), you will have a huge list of things you have never completed or learned about, but the number of things you have achieved will be more than if you had never owned the list in the first place. The glass will always be half-full, even when the glass is infinitely large.

 

[Pegasus]

Wow tpw metaphysics now , your argument seems to be it is ok for people to act in an immoral and hurtfull manner, so long as they think it is ok.

 

[TPW]

Wow tpw metaphysics now , your argument seems to be it is ok for people to act in an immoral and hurtfull manner, so long as they think it is ok.

That is not what I am saying at all Pegasus and frankly, I am surprised that someone as insightful as you would make that assumption. I am also surprised that you continue to make the assumption that NLP is some all-powerful, mind control manipulation to which people are helpless against. That is simply untrue.

Since you have yet to answer my previous question...I will ask it again, How do you know - with absolute certainty - that NLP is what you say it is?

 

[Pegasus]

I have seen enough here on site and in other locations, of guys discussing how to use it to make me feel physically ill . I am sure it can be used in a positive way, however when I have seen discussion of how to use it ,it has generally been so.
No I do not think it is all powerfull .

 

[Gspot]

I have seen enough here on site and in other locations, of guys discussing how to use it to make me feel physically ill . I am sure it can be used in a positive way, however when I have seen discussion of how to use it ,it has generally been so.
No I do not think it is all powerfull .

You are right. However, this is from people who are using tools for malicious intent or with ignorant implementation. Try theology. It can be even more dangerous in the wrong hands, causing death and destruction everywhere: June Jones, Karl Marx, any number of "Bad Popes." But it is also very beneficial and enlightening when utilized with beneficent intent: Billy Graham, Isaac Newton, that Jesus fellow. Theology, NLP, Necromancy, and others fields are all forms of power--"knowledge is power" so they say (not sure I fit that however). They can be used for good or ill. And there is no reason people have to listen to what anyone has to say. Unfortunately, people do tend to flock to idiots and follow them like they are gods. People choose to believe communism can one day work without all the poverty and death, or that they can raise an army of undead to conquer the world, or thepassionatewife might tell me that licking my lover's dirty feet will improve my sex life (yuck), or that the NSA is recording all of this (hello govt. employee 453653-76586-3434388), or that herbal tea can fix my sore back better than a chiropractor, or that Jesus is the Messiah (I think those first two might the same thing?). Truth or hogwash, you must decide. That is freewill.

Not that we can always choose: Nazi youth camps come to mind. So if you feel so strongly about the negative implementations of psychological weapons, then take a good look at the new school standards, tests, and experiments being implemented in nearly every state in the US, and do something to help stop it. I wish you and everyone success in the attempt. Pray for everyone's kids regardless.

 

[CUSP82]

Let's see. NLP or rum? Hmmm I think I'll take the rum. Changing human behavior, making you the best person you can be and on and on comes from heart and soul, not a book or technique. If all these models, theories, behavipor specialist, and on and on could change human behavior the world we be a prettty neat place wouldn't it? Like I said time for rum. If anyone wants to debate "my theories" give me an hour to have some Meyers dark and I'll be back and we'll all have a good time!

 

[BossBoy93]

NLP works really well on drunk girls. Its all about the eye contact and calmness.

 

[BossBoy93]

I actual dont even realizing Im doing it anymore. Passionate wife can you pm me some info on nlp. Like, explaining it in the simplist way you can? plzzzzz

 

[TPW]

Let's see. NLP or rum? Hmmm I think I'll take the rum. Changing human behavior, making you the best person you can be and on and on comes from heart and soul, not a book or technique. If all these models, theories, behavipor specialist, and on and on could change human behavior the world we be a prettty neat place wouldn't it? Like I said time for rum. If anyone wants to debate "my theories" give me an hour to have some Meyers dark and I'll be back and we'll all have a good time!

Wow...I didn't expect to receive such backlash from senior members of this forum for defending my profession. Thank you CUSP for ridiculing my input...yet again.

 

[somebodyelse]

Don't worry about the cookie monster... he's always grumpy.

 

[arkham]

I actual dont even realizing Im doing it anymore. Passionate wife can you pm me some info on nlp. Like, explaining it in the simplist way you can? plzzzzz

Can I get a copy of that ?

 

[someone_like_u]

Wow...I didn't expect to receive such backlash from senior members of this forum for defending my profession. Thank you CUSP for ridiculing my input...yet again.

PW, I for one have enjoyed your posts on this thread. I know nothing of NLP and have found your posts, both informative and well constructed. I can tell you take your time to give input to each thread you post on. Don't let Cusp piss in your corn flakes. He's just an ole sot at times and his rum gets the better of him

Keep being you cause you've helped so many in your short time here And every one here deserves a Passionate Wife

 

[CLOSEDDennyA]

There isn't anything else I don't know...just ask my wife, she always says I'm such a f'ing "know-it-all"..

 

[arkham]

in 2020 there is a plan to main deuterium on the moon.

 

[camaro]

PW, the old timers have seen too many young guys using NLP and associated stuff used badly/harmfully resulting in broken relationships or injured girls.They have since developed a distaste for it.They are more proponents of the old fashioned wooing.

I have since realized - They have been there, done/seen that.They are tired and grumpy.So whenever this stuff comes, some automatic cynicism is dished out.

Ole cusp for instance has laughed off my attempts to save his wheezing liver.While the younger guys ( Toad, CJ, Pad etc ) may support healthy eating, Deep fired double cheese extra crispy is what Cusp reaches for.

After all he has endured, i suppose he is entitled to it.SO also with the NLP, do treat it as the ramblings of gents who have discovered getting old is no fun.

I for one have benefited greatly interacting with you regarding PTSD and some other stuff.Take heart.

 

[camaro]

There isn't anything else I don't know...just ask my wife, she always says I'm such a f'ing "know-it-all"..

You Sir, are insufferable!!