OMG Cumming and orgasm are different?!?!?!

[BigO]

OK, I know it's in Women's Perspective, but it caught my attention. Pay close attention to what the wonderful women here have said.

Don't start in the bedroom. Letting her feel relaxed and comfortable is key. Maybe a nice massage, planting kisses along the neck and shoulders. Take a hot shower together, and wash her sensually. Light a few candles and dim the lights.
Even when you get to the room, don't rush it. As said before, your not conquering a mountain. Instead, think of it as your trying to make a very detailed map, using your hands and mouth as your tools.

If your approach is that you receive pleasure from her pleasure, you'll both be rewarded. If my wife isn't incoherently mumbling, half drooling and gasping for air when I'm done....well, then I'm not done

Communication and patience. Ask her and let her guide you. Hope this helps.

 

[camaro]

IMO, there is the " Involved orgasm " and the " Uninvolved orgasm ".An involved orgasm has your mind and body feeling it.An uninvolved orgasm might be one which is ritual and probably a solo one done to porn or something, where you have the feeling from the spasms but are emotionally disconnected from it and essentially the thrill is gone.Imagine really enjoying some food item.You can taste it and smell it and feel it in your mouth.Eat the same thing for days and soon you don't even notice it.As for the studies, has any one of them separated " Physical " and " Emotional " satisfaction in sex? I'll bet i can force my self on a girl and last an hour, give oral and everything, and have the experience rated " unsatisfactory " because she did not want it in the first place.On the other hand, a quickie with a loving partner may be rated " satisfactory " without oral and no orgasm for her.Will the study count then as well?

I think we should separate " Sex was fine, but i did not feel it " and " I did not feel it because the sex was bad ".

 

[Ivor]

'll bet i can force my self on a girl and last an hour, give oral and everything, and have the experience rated " unsatisfactory " because she did not want it in the first place.

Um, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but this sentence sounds hella rape-tastic.

 

[Frog]

*****Edited to be more neutral and only reflect my opinion*********

One woman did a study and all she did was compare 30+ studies done by men. The rest or majority were done by men. Using surveys done before women had the right to vote or while segregation was in effect or as long and health insurance refuses to cover birth control for women, but will cover Viagra for men are sexist bullshit! Did you know it was not until the 1980's that the scientific community started studying the female bodys genetic differences?

Men assume because they almost always ejaculate easily with not effort a woman should to.

Curtain studies still say there is no "G" spot!

How many of these woman talked about one night stands verses long term intimate relationships?

What were the control cases in these studies? Age, race, education, virgins, size of vagina, size of penis,weight,health,stress,experience???

How long did couples sleep in separate beds?

How long did religion teach sex only to conceive?

How long has society wrongly judged a woman for enjoying sex?

How long have men actually been trying to satisfy there partners longer than 5 minutes?

***I would love to see a modern study done by women with a well documented pool of women to remove any bias or extenuating circumstances from the study.***

:hug:

 

[Frog]

OK, I know it's in Women's Perspective, but it caught my attention. Pay close attention to what the wonderful women here have said.

Don't start in the bedroom. Letting her feel relaxed and comfortable is key. Maybe a nice massage, planting kisses along the neck and shoulders. Take a hot shower together, and wash her sensually. Light a few candles and dim the lights.
Even when you get to the room, don't rush it. As said before, your not conquering a mountain. Instead, think of it as your trying to make a very detailed map, using your hands and mouth as your tools.

If your approach is that you receive pleasure from her pleasure, you'll both be rewarded. If my wife isn't incoherently mumbling, half drooling and gasping for air when i"m done....well, then I'm not done

OMG!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!:hail: I guarantee if the women that participated in these bullshit studies, had a man that thought like you, the percentages would have swung the other way!

Thank you for your post!
reps to you!

 

[Frog]

Um, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but this sentence sounds hella rape-tastic.

I think he is only calling bullshit on the study in a spectacular way.....

 

[camaro]

Um, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but this sentence sounds hella rape-tastic.

Oh no, just sex when she is not in the mood/not ready.

Not to mention, in all these studies who defines the parameters of " Satisfactory " and " Unsatisfactory "? Is loving sex without orgasm truly unsatisfactory?

What satisfies one may not satisfy the other.Does that not skew the results?

 

[donjelqer76]

Frog72- I honestly don't know why you are taking such offense. With female sexuality at a historical peak I find it hard to believe that any study or survey has put women or their sexual needs in the stone ages. I didn't include them, but there are also many surveys from popular women's magazines such as Red Book and Women's Health that are in line with studies. The purpose of the post was not to offend anyone - the question was asked "where do these numbers come from?" while discussing articles that talk about female orgasm frequency. This has hardly been touched on the forums so I compiled a list of references on the subject. These studies and surveys are exactly where these numbers come from and are accepted by governments and researchers (both men and women) world wide. This doesn't mean they are 100% true, as there are inherent errors in all data collecting techniques, especially with the fact that sample size alone makes it hard extrapolate against an entire population.

I agree that some of the older studies don't carry much weight this day and age. Women are more vocal and female sexuality is much different now than it was even 30 years ago. Almost all of the books and surveys cited above are very recent though, mostly in the 1990s and 2000s.

I forget which study it was, but one of the studies had a large number of prostitutes (it was criticized for this actually) so there is definitely at least some data on women where emotional and physical satisfaction were separated

It's all in how one perceives the data. While you say that it tells men to not even bother working for it, I see it as saying that men should work even harder at learning how to please their partner - especially since those same studies point out that around 90% of these same women have no problem reaching orgasm through masturbation.

 

[MrsDonjelqer76]

Always gotta remember... not everyone will carry the same views on sensitive subjects (obviously). Moreover, you can't please everyone.

 

[Ivor]

Why are you doing this donjelqer76?

One woman did a study and all she did was compare 30+ studies done by men. The rest or majority were done by men. Using surveys done before women had the right to vote or while segregation was in effect or as long and health insurance refuses to cover birth control for women, but will cover Viagra for men are sexist bullshit! Did you know it was not until the 1980's that the scientific community started studying the female bodys genetic differences?

Men assume because they almost always ejaculate easily with not effort a woman should to.

Curtain studies still say there is no "G" spot!

How many of these woman talked about one night stands verses long term intimate relationships?

What were the control cases in these studies? Age, race, education, virgins, size of vagina, size of penis,weight,health,stress,experience???

How long did couples sleep in separate beds?

How long did religion teach sex only to conceive?

How long has society wrongly judged a woman for enjoying sex?

How long have men actually been trying to satisfy there partners longer than 5 minutes?

It's fucked up, bullshit studies like these that set a woman's sexuality back to the stone ages! These studies suggest it's okay for men not to try, because 70% of us can't or don't orgasm.....
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

I also can't see why you're attacking DJ so vociferously. I certainly don't get the impression he's saying "Most women don't reach orgasm through penetration alone, therefore they should accept second-rate sex lives and it's fine for men to be lazy and selfish in bed". There's a logical step missing in the middle there, a bit like this:



I've heard the 70% figure (or thereabouts) many times before, and as DJ has shown with numerous citations, it's borne out by recent research. This isn't a case of sexist reactionary researchers vs women's lib, it's about basic sexual anatomy, and for most women it's a lot easier to reach orgasms through clitoral (or clitoral plus vaginal) stimulation than through vaginal stimulation alone. (Maybe it's not for you, I don't know, but bear in mind you are only one woman, and if there's anything a man should know about women and sex, it's that women vary a lot in how they respond to stimulation.)

In fact I think there's a danger in going too far the other way and insisting that any woman can have sex-only orgasms, multiples, ejaculations etc. if only she knew how to do them, or if only her partner knew how to stimulate her correctly. This can lead to posts of the sort I've seen here where you have young, inexperienced guys saying "how can I make my gf squirt?" or give her multiple orgasms or whatever. They're desperate to be "the best she's ever had." In part, these unreasonably high expectations come from watching porn, of course. It also fosters an unhealthy attitude whereby guys can end up looking at their partner's body like a pinball table they want to set a new high score on, by making her soak the sheets, screen till the neighbours call the cops etc. etc. Now the guy with this attitude might think he's being 'generous' in bed but really, he's just being a different kind of selfish, as it's not really about his girlfriend's pleasure at all: in reality, he's engaged in a childish and macho competition with all her previous lovers.

So I think there's a danger for men in reading too many "how to" articles on multiple orgasms, squirting and so on. It gives the impression that all women are more or less the same, and that to get whatever result you just need to give the right sort of input, like pressing the right combination of buttons to do a special move in Street Fighter II. The guy then puts these into practice, tries really hard, and suppose he doesn't get the expected result: what then? Well either he's just inherently useless in bed, which of course is terrible for his self-esteem, or - worse - since he did everything right, the problem must lie with her!

The idea that it's all about technique also flies in the face of what several people have mentioned already in this thread, which is the importance of mood, relaxation and mental arousal, particularly for women, over the actual mechanics of sex.

Do you see why I think it's unhealthy to promote ideas such as "all women can in principle have penetration-only orgasms"? It's just going to put loads of pressure on couples for whom that isn't the case - either the guy is doing something wrong or the woman has something wrong with her. I think a much better way to think is "whatever works for you", and concentrate on the idea that different people get off on different sorts of stimulation. Yes, it's cool for a woman to be able to come just from being fucked - I like it that my girlfriend can come that way, sure - but it doesn't mean the sex is bad if she needs a helping hand to get there. I love it when my girlfriend comes however she gets there, whether it's mainly due to my dick, my tongue, or her fingers or a vibrator while I stroke her and kiss her.

 

[Frog]

I also can't see why you're attacking DJ so vociferously.

Not intending to attack...I will edit my last post to soften the way it came across. Just tired of men acting like experts on the female body.

 

[Frog]

Frog72- I honestly don't know why you are taking such offense. With female sexuality at a historical peak I find it hard to believe that any study or survey has put women or their sexual needs in the stone ages. I didn't include them, but there are also many surveys from popular women's magazines such as Red Book and Women's Health that are in line with studies. The purpose of the post was not to offend anyone - the question was asked "where do these numbers come from?" while discussing articles that talk about female orgasm frequency. This has hardly been touched on the forums so I compiled a list of references on the subject. These studies and surveys are exactly where these numbers come from and are accepted by governments and researchers (both men and women) world wide. This doesn't mean they are 100% true, as there are inherent errors in all data collecting techniques, especially with the fact that sample size alone makes it hard extrapolate against an entire population.

I agree that some of the older studies don't carry much weight this day and age. Women are more vocal and female sexuality is much different now than it was even 30 years ago. Almost all of the books and surveys cited above are very recent though, mostly in the 1990s and 2000s.

I forget which study it was, but one of the studies had a large number of prostitutes (it was criticized for this actually) so there is definitely at least some data on women where emotional and physical satisfaction were separated

It's all in how one perceives the data. While you say that it tells men to not even bother working for it, I see it as saying that men should work even harder at learning how to please their partner - especially since those same studies point out that around 90% of these same women have no problem reaching orgasm through masturbation.

I made some changes to soften my post....I should have at least 2 cups of coffee before ranting on topics. I still feel the same about the studies, but I did not have to be a ass about it either.

 

[donjelqer76]

No hard feelings here, and I definitely don't disagree with some of the valid points brought up.

 

[averagedick]

My opinion is youve only been fucking three weeks in your whole life, youve waited so long for this like we all did now enjoy it for yourself make sure you enjoy it took you so long to lose your virginty enjoy it for yourself. Get experience try everything that youve always wanted to try worry about her later. I was fourteen losing my virginity seemed like forever and I worked myself up to a point when sex was a worry instead of enjoying it for what it is when you find what works for you youll automatically find what works for her

 

[Ivor]

Not intending to attack...I will edit my last post to soften the way it came across. Just tired of men acting like experts on the female body.

OK, that's cool. You have a female body of course, which I don't and DJ doesn't, but you have only one, remember. An important thing I was saying in my last post is that women vary a lot - more than men - in how responsive they are to physical stimuli. Some women reach middle age before they've had a single orgasm while others barely have to be touched to go off like a firecracker. Now a man who's had several partners will probably have noticed that some reached orgasm more easily than others, or that some preferred oral sex while others got off more easily from penetration, or whatever.

So while you might know your own body inside out, then unless you've had female partners too (which you might have, I don't know) then that's the only female body whose response you understand well. Whereas most of us guys have some experience of women with different levels of sensitivity and orgasmic response.

 

[Frog]

A little bit of history about female anatomy and the study of.
SWHR Timeline of Important Events - Society for Women's Health Research

I must admit, I find in humorous that men were "studying" orgasms of woman, but not studying ways to help us live longer and healthier. It wasn't until 1985 that this truth was accepted as fact.

:angel:

 

[Realman]

Well they have to get funding to research and maybe the guy who they got money from ,only want info about female orgasms and not about living longer.

 

[greymouser]

women sure look sexual to us,
but very few are quite sexual..

i believe in the existence of clitoral orgasm,
(through the proven existence of female masturbation)
i do believe that the studies saying that vaginal orgasm trough intercourse is scarce,
because it takes the alignments of so many parameter to achieve one,
mainly sizes of both partners, her mood, health,
time in which a certain consistency in rhythm should be kept to achieve a female orgasm is
mainly constrained by the male partner technique and ability to last long enough..

we males procreate to multiply we only need to look for fat "an asexual kind of fat, released only to assure the gestational growth and breast feeding phase" in the buttocks and thighs and for breast to be assured that it's the best location to plant our seeds,
so orgasms means for us that the seed has been planted with success in the that vessel quite simple and straightforward kind of orgasm...

but for females it's a different story males can force females to procreate,
and this is why female orgasm can't occur if her mind is refusing it,
this is why female orgasm is linked to a psychological layer of consent..
if she is consenting to be the vessel for that seed then the orgasm will be hundreds of times stronger because her body tells her that what she have been born to achieve (giving birth) has been done with tremendous success..

for females the clitoris have been made available outside the body and made available to manual simulation, as the penis, to release building up frustration of not being able to reproduce...

 

[Ivor]

I must admit, I find in humorous that men were "studying" orgasms of woman, but not studying ways to help us live longer and healthier.
:angel:

Yep, absolutely no medical advances were made that helped women live longer or healthier until a couple of decades ago and childbirth in the 1970s was just as dangerous as in the middle ages.

Seriously, WTF?