Understanding Pumping

[namsokiek]

So I’m trying to wrap my mind around all the information regarding pumping. I’ve read all the sticky’s and am now trying to consolidate the information.

I understand the value of manual work right before entering the pump. Loosen things up, get the blood in.

I understand the importance of entering erect. Maximize internal pressure before vacuum.

Lube is required to create a seal at the base and reduce friction along the shaft when milking.

Low vac is less damaging than high pressure.

The bit I don’t completely understand is edema prevention.

Root cause of edema: The vacuum pulls fluids into the penis. First to come is blood into the CC and CS. This is because the circulation system is the path of least resistance. This is good. The limiting factor is the flexibility of the tunica. Second to come is fluid between the tunica and the skin. This is not a normal path of movement so likelihood of this occurring increases with time under vacuum or increased vacuum. This is edema and bad.

When you’re conditioned you don’t get edema. So, what prevents the fluid migration between the tunica and the skin? Is it the interaction of packing the cylinder? This means your tunica is flexible enough to expand to the ID of the cylinder relieving the vacuum along the shaft and occluding the path of fluid between the tunica and the skin. Is this correct?

How do condoms or silicone sleeves prevent or reduce edema? Is it because the condom provides some resistance to expansion and, when the tunica expands, occludes the path of fluid between the tunica and skin?

When you move up in cylinder size are you again at risk of edema until you pack the cylinder?

 

[BigO]

Edema is reduced because of lower pressure. Edema is fluid being drawn into your dermal layers ( skin) when the draw of force is more than it should be or the pressure is held for too long. To avoid this it is recommended to start with lower pressure and o set a day or every other day starting with 5 minutes at a time, after a week try going for 10 minutes. Week two you may try a 10 minute set and a 5 and if you condition well you can try two 10 minute sets. Eventually if you monitor your self and progress safely you will be able to do 20 minute sets and then 2 and even more.

For whatever reason you will be able to increase time and sets with in a few weeks to a month. If you try 20 minute sets right away you may get lucky but usually a non conditioned penis ( for pumping ) will suffer edema. I would stay safe and start with 5 minutes for at least the first week, maybe two sets of 5 minutes.

The reason that condom pumping helps to prevent edema is that the condom puts pressure on your skin and kind of sets a barrier around it. The inward force of the condom kind of counter acts the outward force of the fluid. It is basically making another layer of strength that the fluid has to battle to get where it wants. I have even heard of people using much thicker materials so they can do extreme pumping, I would not recommend that though, just try it with your dick and a pump.

For many who pack the cylinder edema is the reason they do so. Once you are experienced you will be able to pack without edema but it is a learning process.

 

[namsokiek]

Thanks BigO. So a conditioned penis will not suffer edema when they move to a bigger cylinder?

 

[BigO]

You can still suffer edema if you over do it but you will be able to handle a lot more with experience then when you start out. I can do 4 sets of 20 to 30 minutes with zero edema now at about 5-6 hg, when I started if I would have done one set at 6 hg for 20 minutes my pickle would have looked like a water balloon.

 

[namsokiek]

BigO, cool.. But I'm still confused regarding the aspect of "being conditioned" which inhibits the edema? Do the dermal layers change?

I envision the process as a battle to equalize pressure. The cylinder is the only fixed dimension. The penis goes under vacuum and the easiest way to reduce the vacuum is for blood to enter the CC and CS. This brings the tunica either to its limits of flexibility or to the ID of the cylinder. If the tunica is able to expand to the ID (pack), the pressure is equalized.

If the tunica cannot expand to pack the cylinder, the pressure then draws fluid into the skin, which is edema. The fluid can continue to flow until the tube is packed or pressure is released. Either way, the pressure under the skin is equalized.

Wearing a condom adds a layer which offers compression that, as you said, slows the flow into the dermal layers. It does this by reducing the effective vacuum on the penis and pressure equality is reached at a lower pressure.

In each of these there is a mechanism where the pressure is equalized. I don't find a mechanism that prevents edema in a conditioned penis that is not packing the tube?

Don't misunderstand me. I totally believe it can happen, I just haven't figured out how. From your experience, how do you think it happens?

 

[Wolfemother]

Have a read through this. It explains time dependent strain rate deformation.
Balloon Science: Physics

 

[sssssteve]

I found the best solution to concentrate the pressure of the vacuum on the inner chambers: use a silicone "stroker" (pocket pussy) inside of the tube. the uniform pressure discourages fluid buildup while maintaining blood in the inner chambers.

 

[BigO]

What you need to understand that it is blood that will fill the chambers, but it is a water like fluid that is drawn up and into the skin. You will not decrease the effect on the expansion of the tunica buy restricting the outward expansion on the skin. As a matter of fact many who use these techniques claim to have a fatter flaccid and a better overall pump once they are finished.

 

[JonPop]

The"water" like fluid that is being referenced to is "LYMPH" fluid.
This is being drawn from the lymph glands in the groin and pelvic area.
I find that if I pump too many sets in a day, that I will get a pretty good size doughnut under my glans, that
will take many hours to dissipate.

The best way to avoid this is a really good warm up with a rice sock, pump at around 3-4 Hg and a set of no more than 20 minutes.
I also very carefully watch the color of my penis so as not to let it get much past it's normal skin color.
Also, while in the tube, either soak in a good hot bath or wrap a hot rice sock around the tube during the duration of the set.
I have experienced no ill effects from Lymph fluid buildup, but feel that it's not something you want to happen on a regular basis.

 

[BigO]

Thanks for finding the word, I swear it was eluding me. I also avoid lymph fluid build up. In my opinion when you get the donut effect you have really taken away from your work out. If I even feel or see the slightest hint of it I end my workout immediately. Being well conditioned and fortunate I very seldom have an issue with the build up of lymph fluids. I spent a lot of time earlier on finding my limits with time and pressure so I could get with in a few minutes of the onset and never go past that limit

Great explanation JP

 

[JonPop]

Thanks BigO. Yeah, I try to avoid this also. But ya know what? I thought it wouldn't happen
if I pumped with the tube full of water, but it still did. So now, like you, I just watch the time.

I have a big clock in my bathroom with a sweep second hand, so now I can take the vacuum up to
8-10 inches of Hg for 2 sweeps of the second hand and then drop it back down for another 5 minutes
and then repeat for maybe 3 times. Then end the session. One hell of a pump session, but you have
to be WELL conditioned for this.

 

[BigO]

I will jack it up to 7 or 8 but not for long, I find a spike of pressure here and there to get things going works well. I tried a set at 8 once for twenty minutes a couple of years ago and I ended up with a purple spot on my shaft about 1/4 of an inch in witdth. You would not think a spot that size is an issue but it looked like one on the dong! Only thing I have ever had to take a break for. Learned a lesson quickly on pressure.

 

[namsokiek]

Everyone,

Thanks for all the great information. Whereas my brain is wired to be an engineer, I tend to look at things from that perspective when trying to understand it.

BigO, I completely understand the tunica will still expand with a condom. Constructing force diagrams help me understand how the force balances. So, I'll try to talk my way through the process to see if I get it.

1. Entering the tube erect ensures high pressure inside the tunica at the beginning and opens the pathways (veins) for more blood to enter the tunica as intended.

2. Under vacuum, more blood is drawn into the tunica as it expands to its max size (where the slope of the S curve ends horizontal movement [great info wolfemother]). At this point the penis is still under vacuum which causes several physiological reactions. Blood is still available to enter the tunica (so no pressure inhibition there) which maintains pressure inside the tunica to encourage it to stretch along the plastic strain curve. However, lymph fluid is available to flow into the dermal layer (but its rate of flow is much slower than blood into tunica).

a. Lymph fluid moving into the dermal layers increase the volume of the penis, which volume incrementally drops the effective vacuum on the surface of the penis (pressure/area drops if the same pressure is applied over a larger area).

b. The pressure felt by the tunica also drops because of the change in surface area but also because of the pressure inequality caused by the different flow rates of the two fluids. Blood's ability to easily move into and out of the penis puts it at a pressure disadvantage to lymph fluid, which moves slowly. It takes a lot to pull lymph fluid into the penis and it sounds like it takes a long time to move it out. So as fluid enters the dermal layer, it can displace blood inside the tunica.

I picture two balloons, one inside the other. The inside balloon is attached to a reservoir filled with water, the outside balloon to a reservoir filled with syrup. Place the unit under vacuum and the water will fill the inside balloon to it's elastic limits and begin to cause plastic deformation. Keep the unit under high enough pressure and the outside balloon will begin to pull syrup between the two balloons, reducing the strain on the inside balloon. Drop the vacuum and water evacuates the inside balloon quickly and the syrup evacuates slowly.

c. Essentially, edema reduces pressure on the tunica inside the tube and prevents (kills) full erection outside the tube. So what happens when we add a condom or silicone sleeve?

3. Returning to the balloon contraption, a condom is a third balloon over the second but it is not attached to a reservoir. If the 1st balloon's elastic limit exceeds the normal size of the third balloon, the third balloon begins to expand and carries some of the pressure. Balancing the availability of blood to enter the tunica, ability to kegel, and entering erect, the condom should not inhibit tunica expansion as long as the condom is in it's elastic stage. The additional pressure between the tunica and the condom further inhibits the movement of lymph fluid, which retains the strain on the tunica.

Over time, as a result of the tunica losing resistance to expansion, the pressure between the tunica and skin does not become high enough to pull lymph fluid under normal pumping pressures.

In comparison, it appears the condom will enhance the pumping effect on the tunica by preventing the movement of lymph fluid.

So the next question is, does wearing a condom during the conditioning phase (adhering to the beginner programs mentioned in the stickies) enhance conditioning by reducing the opportunity of edema? I may have to find out.

Thanks to all for your input.

 

[JonPop]

Arrgh! Engineers, next you will have graphs, pie charts, power point slides and pictures with arrows on them..

Actually, I found this quite interesting. I'd heard about pumping with a condom years ago, just never tried it.
Please nam, let us know how this goes for you and if you truly find this to be viable.

Oh...Rep points for all of your hard work and great post.

 

[Wolfemother]

Good post.
I think a silicone sleeve would be better than a condom. Interesting quote from ABSilicone on their ' Penis pumping constriction sleeve'

'The AB Silicone Pumping Sleeve is a super soft silicone sleeve that is most commonly used as a enhancer for pumping sessions. The sleeve provides the extra constriction so the pressure may be increased, thus increasing cell separation/fullness. Increased length gains have been reported among many users of this during pumping. Use has shown that constricting the cells during enlargement processes using vacuum pressure will yield greater results as opposed to a non-constrictive session. It is simply too amazing to describe how much it enhances the routine, anyone who is using a pump of any kind should be using an AB Silicone Pumping Sleeve.Prevents Water Blisters/Water Build '

 

[namsokiek]

Thanks all for the contributions and discussions. I really value the help.

JP, I'll post my routine and all applicable devices once I've come to a decision. I am seriously considering using something.

wolfemother, I remember reading the same on their webpage but the tone of the statement and the fact they're selling something made me discount their statements. Now that I've thought through the process, I'm only put off by the "AND THAT'S NOT ALL!!" marketing tone in the statement.

I noticed their pumping sleeve is open ended. Does this put the glands at risk of injury?

I've been trying to figure out how to fabricate a closed end pumping sleeve of my own. I think I've figured out how to make the mold but I'm waiting on some material. I'll be sure to post it on the mad scientist thread if it works.

 

[JonPop]

I've had a silicone ring that fits on the base of the tube, for years.
I noticed that it increased my base girth but could not get the girth to travel to the glans.
I have found that I get better results from the bare tube, pumping as BigO suggests.
But, it is very comfortable against the pubic bone and does keep you from accidentally sucking a nut into the tube if you use a lot of lube to make a good seal.

@BigO. That picture I sent you, was from 2007. Much bigger in girth now, especially base girth.

 

[namsokiek]

UPDATE:

So I finally received the appropriate coupling insert and started my routine.

I started the first session warming up, stretching, and 50 jelqs.

I put the silicone sleeve on and started my first 10 minutes. I started out at 3"hg and gently worked it up to 5"hg. After 10 minutes, I removed the sleeve, checked for swelling or discoloration, and did 50 more jelqs. (had some previous discoloration from a superficial squeezing injury, no discomfort or swelling from it and it wasn't more pronounced)

Did another 10 minutes at 5"hg.

Checked for more swelling or discoloration and, not finding any new stuff, did a third 10 minutes at 5"hg.

At the end of the third set there was slight swelling (edema) at the frenelum. The end of the silicone sleeve is perpendicular to the length, but my glans are not. This leaves a small part of the shaft exposed at the frenelum which is where the edema occurred. No swelling at the glans and only slight puffiness at the urethra opening. Nice and plump afterwards.

I felt pretty good about the session. I was comfortable with the transition to 5"hg and was pretty please about the effects of using the sleeve. I believe the 4.5" of pressure from the sleeve helped minimize the edema at the exposed area. The next morning the edema has subsided and everything was good to go.

The next day I repeated the same work-out except I made sure the silicone sleeve was a close to the ridge of the glans as possible and I started the first set at 5"HG. Post work-out; no additional discoloration, less swelling at the frenelum, and good pump afterwards.

The third day I warmed-up, stretched, and did 50 jelqs. I did two sets of 10 minutes at 5"hg and wrapped a heating pad around my unit between sets. Showing no signs of edema or additional discoloration I decided to try pulse pumping. I did 6 sets 30 sec high pressure and 20 sec low, High was 10"hg and low was 3"hg. I immediately transitioned to doing 8 sets 15 sec high and 15 sec low at the same levels.

A close, post-exercise examination showed only slight swelling where the sleeve doesn't cover.

 

[namsokiek]

Preliminaty analysis: Using the sleeve is great!!! No significant swelling, no discolor, good to go the next day.

Given that some edema occurred by the end of the third set, and that the lymph fluid had to transit the entire length of the sleeve, I would certainly have had some serious edema along the whole shaft.

 

[namsokiek]

I modified my pumping sessions and placed the pulse pumping first then static sets afterwards.

Day 4:
Warm-up, stretch, 50 jelqs.

First set: Pulse pump, 10"hg high, 3"hg low
10 reps, 15 sec high, 15 sec low
6 reps, 30 sec high, 20 sec low

Warm with heating pad over silicone sleeve. Check for swelling or discoloration. (none found)

Second set: Pump to 10"hg for 30 secs, reduce to 5"hg and hold for 9:30.

Warm with heating pad over silicone sleeve. Check for swelling or discoloration. (slight edema at frenelum)

Third set: Pump to 10"hg for 30 secs, reduce to 5"hg and hold for 9:30.

Check for swelling or discoloration. Edema at the frenelum is about 1/8" thick, very similar to previous sessions.

I did the same workout for Day 5 and Day 6 without the jelqing. The level of edema was the same after the third set on each day.

However, at the end of the 6th day I tried a 4th set without the sleeve. Did not exceed 5"hg but the existing edema expanded and a second spot started to develop within the first minute. I immediately stopped the session.